Hilarious. In what world is a Linux a good choice for “Elderly people who are not familiar with advanced technology and prefer clean and simple computer usage”.
The elderly people I know already struggle with the systems they’ve used for years. And when something goes wrong, they can ask basically anyone and someone will be able to help them.
Now insert Linux (which “flavour”? Who knows, pick one) and see who can help with even basic tasks or problems. This is fantasy shit.
My mother used Linux Mint as her last OS just fine. She struggled more with her phone than Linux. Just using browser, mail client and writing the occasional letter you’re pretty much OS-agnostic.
However, while that does work, sometimes updates break something (regardless of distribution). Windows mixes shit up which makes the elderly not finding something again but Linux updates may result in the DE not starting for some reason. I moved to Linux 100% myself but I still won’t ever recommend it to anyone who isn’t fine with tinkering or has access to family tech support.
Another argument in the style of “Linux cannot be used by the common public, because Linux is not used by the common public”.
Windows is super annoying to help someone with it, as you can barely do anything. Let’s say that after the update the graphical interface is not starting, what can be done? Because you cannot Ctrl+Alt+F3 to get into a console mode. Or that for remote help I can a dictate command that sends me the info or open SSH to me instead of recieving blurry photos of the screen.
Like Android, easy to help if they just don’t know where a thing is, super hard to fix deep system problem.
It’s not because it’s not used by the common public, it’s because there aren’t normie-friendly resources and or a company help desk that average people rely on when they need assistance. It’s all well and good for people to say these things are easy to learn and they don’t break, it in the real world, for people who don’t really care about this stuff but have to use it for a few random tasks, it’s nice to know there’s a place that will help you. Not everyone has a techie friend or relative.
The issue is not with the software itself (although there are issues there) as much as it is with non-commercial nature of Linux. It’s great that there’s a thriving community of people who are passionate about this stuff and get great use and enjoyment out of it, but many of the reasons people love it are also reasons why it will probably never be a viable mainstream option.
It’s not because it’s not used by the common public, it’s because there aren’t normie-friendly resources and or a company help desk that average people rely on when they need assistance.
And why there aren’t normie-friendly resources and or a company help desk? :)
Personally I haven’t heard of anyone getting support from Microsoft or finding Microsoft help pages useful. MacOS and Windows are making money on the support for corporate users and for manufacturers preinstalling the system (Apple being it for themselfs).
Nothing that Linux cannot also do.
We are talking about going mainstream, then do you think that if Linux would have ~80% of the desktop market, there won’t be any commercial support companies and normie level help?
There certanly is for the server space, even home servers like NAS devices.
If Linux somehow grew its market share to 80% of all users then there probably would be some form of support-based business or companies forking off their own version and building their own supported platforms, and the we end up with a bunch of closed platforms competing for all the money by offering a more polished experience for a premium.
Or none of that happens. I don’t know, this is all just make-believe because it’s a scenario that’s never going to happen.
My great-aunt asked for a PC when she was 85 and her grandchild moved abroad. I installed Linux mint with a few scripts and shortcuts to ease her life, and she picked that up (check email, Skype, nothing super sophisticated ofc). I guess if it’s a new thing, windows does not the advantage of being already familiar, and Linux is more stable in my experience, which leads to less random errors.
Im not saying it’s impossible, but it’s not “the best”. Even in your example, you set everything up. But if something goes wrong, will you be there to fix it? With a Mac, which is lately idiot-proof, if something breaks there’s an easy number to call or places you can take your machine.
Again, not saying it’s unusable, but just being usable wasn’t the claim.
I find Mac to be extremely unintuitive in how things are organized tbh, but that’s just me.
Anyway, you are right, but she wanted to spend just 3-400 euros for a laptop, which is incompatible with Apple prices.
Obviously this means being there to support if something goes wrong, but with a minimal install and Linux being stable, it doesn’t happen often (I also have my mom’s laptop running mint). I do have a reverse tunnel script configured that allows me to SSH in their machines using a “panic” icon on their desktop.
But you get that not everyone has you on speed dial to fix things, right? That’s my point.
Also, you can get a used MacBook Air in great condition for that price. Or a slightly older Pro. You just can’t get the absolute latest and greatest, but for that price you were never going to anyway, so it’s sort of moot.
Of course, but I assume elderly people getting familiar with a completely new technology need anyway some kind of personal support and introduction from someone close.
I don’t think anybody would plan to throw a Mac at some elderly person and say “if any issue call Apple support”, right?
I get your point though, and I am just saying that there are situations where Linux might work totally fine.
Also, the used market for apple product is not that big where I lived. Nobody in the family had a Mac also, which means she wouldn’t have had anybody to ask for support at all. It’s a specific situation, but my point is that having an official support is not going to help that much in some cases.
The whole point in “Linux for elderly” is that they can’t go clickety-click on everything they find and screw things up. You hide everything relating to system config from the graphical UI.
Worked fine for my father for years. I got tired of him skrewing up his Windows. Malware and desktop highjacking was also less of a problem, because Linux is a niche operating system.
Same worked for my cousins son, who mostly played on PS3 back then, minecraft being the only PC game.
…but for the elderly flying solo with no help from anyone, Linux in a no-go.
No shit. Have you installed Windows 10/11 recently? Do you seriously believe a 85 year-old will get this done on their own?
I share your overall opinion though: Linux is not “the best for most people”. That would be phones nowadays. Many people don’t even have computers anymore (I don’t get how they organize their finances or write documents but I guess I’m just old).
It’s more likely that someone will buy a laptop or PC with Windows installed. Installing Windows on their own is hardly the experience most users go through.
I have, but that’s not the point. There are places you can take a computer and say “hey, I’d like one Windows installation, please.” There are exceedingly few places that would help an old person set up a Linux installation, at which point theyre at the mercy of whatever nerd in their life will do it, and then just hoping they don’t move or die.
Im specifically not expecting them to do it themselves, which is why I think Linux is not a good option.
Yeah I agree, when old people have trouble using an iPhone which is one of the simplest OSs to use, there’s no way that they can use Linux, yes it’s good but it’s not as simple to use as an iPhone. And they can get help with their iPhone from anyone, or at the Apple store, there’s no Linux store they can get help from.
I have installed Ubuntu and Linux Mint for retirees who need a machine that they can browse the internet and check emails. Some of them have been using those distros for years with minimal issues.
Massive disagree. Most Linux distros are far far easier for people who just want the basic use case of loading a browser or playing a song.
I think you have this idea in your mind of Linux being this complex system where you need to open the terminal and be a hacker man. That’s not what desktop Linux is like unless you’re going for some niche neckbeardy setup.
If an old person had a PC with, say, Linux Mint, ChromeOS, or even Ubuntu on it, they’d almost certainly struggle far less than they would with Windows.
Windows is not easier. You just think it’s easier because you’re more used to it.
That’s absolutely not the idea I have in my head. If you read most of my replies here, I think I explain pretty clearly that the main issue I see with Linux is not actually the software itself, it’s that there’s not a good, normie-friendly support system for when things do go wrong or things aren’t immediately obvious.
I also tend to advocate for MacOS more than Windows. Although I’ve used both my whole life, I find macOS a lot more intuitive than windows, and I would generally never recommend windows unless there’s a specific need for it.
Well yeah, there’s not really much of a unified support system (some distros do have support, be it free or paid, though). But there isn’t for windows these days either.
I can’t speak to whether you can contact Apple and ask for help.
You can absolutely contact Microsoft (or Apple) for support, plus basically any computer store will happily charge a small fee for basic tech support, or you can call the computer manufacturer or reseller. On the Linux side, unless you bought from something like System76, the chances of you finding an official support network that an elderly person would find usable and accessible are pretty slim.
What age do you mean when you say “elderly”? For me they are 80/90 and do not have a computer or mobile.
What do you mean ask anyone, most of their friends are dead and their children are adults who live far away and are as computer literature as our parents.
Hilarious. In what world is a Linux a good choice for “Elderly people who are not familiar with advanced technology and prefer clean and simple computer usage”.
The elderly people I know already struggle with the systems they’ve used for years. And when something goes wrong, they can ask basically anyone and someone will be able to help them.
Now insert Linux (which “flavour”? Who knows, pick one) and see who can help with even basic tasks or problems. This is fantasy shit.
My mother used Linux Mint as her last OS just fine. She struggled more with her phone than Linux. Just using browser, mail client and writing the occasional letter you’re pretty much OS-agnostic.
However, while that does work, sometimes updates break something (regardless of distribution). Windows mixes shit up which makes the elderly not finding something again but Linux updates may result in the DE not starting for some reason. I moved to Linux 100% myself but I still won’t ever recommend it to anyone who isn’t fine with tinkering or has access to family tech support.
Some Linux distros change less than Windows in appearance over the years.
Also easy to set configs back to default if things go astray, as everything is a file.
Have you tried introducing an “oldy” to it lately?
I showed my parents who used Windows but Apple for phones and they took to Ubuntu like duck to water!
Another argument in the style of “Linux cannot be used by the common public, because Linux is not used by the common public”.
Windows is super annoying to help someone with it, as you can barely do anything. Let’s say that after the update the graphical interface is not starting, what can be done? Because you cannot Ctrl+Alt+F3 to get into a console mode. Or that for remote help I can a dictate command that sends me the info or open SSH to me instead of recieving blurry photos of the screen. Like Android, easy to help if they just don’t know where a thing is, super hard to fix deep system problem.
It’s not because it’s not used by the common public, it’s because there aren’t normie-friendly resources and or a company help desk that average people rely on when they need assistance. It’s all well and good for people to say these things are easy to learn and they don’t break, it in the real world, for people who don’t really care about this stuff but have to use it for a few random tasks, it’s nice to know there’s a place that will help you. Not everyone has a techie friend or relative.
The issue is not with the software itself (although there are issues there) as much as it is with non-commercial nature of Linux. It’s great that there’s a thriving community of people who are passionate about this stuff and get great use and enjoyment out of it, but many of the reasons people love it are also reasons why it will probably never be a viable mainstream option.
And why there aren’t normie-friendly resources and or a company help desk? :)
Because it’s hard to support employees and compete with corporate behemoths like Microsoft and Apple when your product is a free, open-source OS?
Personally I haven’t heard of anyone getting support from Microsoft or finding Microsoft help pages useful. MacOS and Windows are making money on the support for corporate users and for manufacturers preinstalling the system (Apple being it for themselfs). Nothing that Linux cannot also do.
We are talking about going mainstream, then do you think that if Linux would have ~80% of the desktop market, there won’t be any commercial support companies and normie level help? There certanly is for the server space, even home servers like NAS devices.
I don’t get the point of playing what if.
If Linux somehow grew its market share to 80% of all users then there probably would be some form of support-based business or companies forking off their own version and building their own supported platforms, and the we end up with a bunch of closed platforms competing for all the money by offering a more polished experience for a premium.
Or none of that happens. I don’t know, this is all just make-believe because it’s a scenario that’s never going to happen.
My great-aunt asked for a PC when she was 85 and her grandchild moved abroad. I installed Linux mint with a few scripts and shortcuts to ease her life, and she picked that up (check email, Skype, nothing super sophisticated ofc). I guess if it’s a new thing, windows does not the advantage of being already familiar, and Linux is more stable in my experience, which leads to less random errors.
Im not saying it’s impossible, but it’s not “the best”. Even in your example, you set everything up. But if something goes wrong, will you be there to fix it? With a Mac, which is lately idiot-proof, if something breaks there’s an easy number to call or places you can take your machine.
Again, not saying it’s unusable, but just being usable wasn’t the claim.
I find Mac to be extremely unintuitive in how things are organized tbh, but that’s just me.
Anyway, you are right, but she wanted to spend just 3-400 euros for a laptop, which is incompatible with Apple prices. Obviously this means being there to support if something goes wrong, but with a minimal install and Linux being stable, it doesn’t happen often (I also have my mom’s laptop running mint). I do have a reverse tunnel script configured that allows me to SSH in their machines using a “panic” icon on their desktop.
But you get that not everyone has you on speed dial to fix things, right? That’s my point.
Also, you can get a used MacBook Air in great condition for that price. Or a slightly older Pro. You just can’t get the absolute latest and greatest, but for that price you were never going to anyway, so it’s sort of moot.
Of course, but I assume elderly people getting familiar with a completely new technology need anyway some kind of personal support and introduction from someone close. I don’t think anybody would plan to throw a Mac at some elderly person and say “if any issue call Apple support”, right?
I get your point though, and I am just saying that there are situations where Linux might work totally fine.
Also, the used market for apple product is not that big where I lived. Nobody in the family had a Mac also, which means she wouldn’t have had anybody to ask for support at all. It’s a specific situation, but my point is that having an official support is not going to help that much in some cases.
To be clear, I didn’t say Linux is never suitable for elderly people. I said it’s not the best, which is the claim the original article made.
The whole point in “Linux for elderly” is that they can’t go clickety-click on everything they find and screw things up. You hide everything relating to system config from the graphical UI.
Worked fine for my father for years. I got tired of him skrewing up his Windows. Malware and desktop highjacking was also less of a problem, because Linux is a niche operating system.
Same worked for my cousins son, who mostly played on PS3 back then, minecraft being the only PC game.
…but for the elderly flying solo with no help from anyone, Linux in a no-go.
No shit. Have you installed Windows 10/11 recently? Do you seriously believe a 85 year-old will get this done on their own?
I share your overall opinion though: Linux is not “the best for most people”. That would be phones nowadays. Many people don’t even have computers anymore (I don’t get how they organize their finances or write documents but I guess I’m just old).
It’s more likely that someone will buy a laptop or PC with Windows installed. Installing Windows on their own is hardly the experience most users go through.
I have, but that’s not the point. There are places you can take a computer and say “hey, I’d like one Windows installation, please.” There are exceedingly few places that would help an old person set up a Linux installation, at which point theyre at the mercy of whatever nerd in their life will do it, and then just hoping they don’t move or die.
Im specifically not expecting them to do it themselves, which is why I think Linux is not a good option.
Yeah I agree, when old people have trouble using an iPhone which is one of the simplest OSs to use, there’s no way that they can use Linux, yes it’s good but it’s not as simple to use as an iPhone. And they can get help with their iPhone from anyone, or at the Apple store, there’s no Linux store they can get help from.
Most anything can and is run in the browser these days. Linux is fine for that. Most settings are fairly intuitive and fully featured.
Anything beyond that and things start to fall apart quickly.
I have installed Ubuntu and Linux Mint for retirees who need a machine that they can browse the internet and check emails. Some of them have been using those distros for years with minimal issues.
Massive disagree. Most Linux distros are far far easier for people who just want the basic use case of loading a browser or playing a song.
I think you have this idea in your mind of Linux being this complex system where you need to open the terminal and be a hacker man. That’s not what desktop Linux is like unless you’re going for some niche neckbeardy setup.
If an old person had a PC with, say, Linux Mint, ChromeOS, or even Ubuntu on it, they’d almost certainly struggle far less than they would with Windows.
Windows is not easier. You just think it’s easier because you’re more used to it.
That’s absolutely not the idea I have in my head. If you read most of my replies here, I think I explain pretty clearly that the main issue I see with Linux is not actually the software itself, it’s that there’s not a good, normie-friendly support system for when things do go wrong or things aren’t immediately obvious.
I also tend to advocate for MacOS more than Windows. Although I’ve used both my whole life, I find macOS a lot more intuitive than windows, and I would generally never recommend windows unless there’s a specific need for it.
Well yeah, there’s not really much of a unified support system (some distros do have support, be it free or paid, though). But there isn’t for windows these days either.
I can’t speak to whether you can contact Apple and ask for help.
You can absolutely contact Microsoft (or Apple) for support, plus basically any computer store will happily charge a small fee for basic tech support, or you can call the computer manufacturer or reseller. On the Linux side, unless you bought from something like System76, the chances of you finding an official support network that an elderly person would find usable and accessible are pretty slim.
Microsoft support is essentially dead.
And the computer store example applies for PCs in general, not just windows ones.
You can get support from your distro, not just hardware sellers.
Support networks for Windows is useless for anybody, nevermind old people. They absolutely do not have usable and accessible support.
What age do you mean when you say “elderly”? For me they are 80/90 and do not have a computer or mobile.
What do you mean ask anyone, most of their friends are dead and their children are adults who live far away and are as computer literature as our parents.
Mid 60s and up, around retiring age (or at least that’s retiring age where I am).