In some sense it is violence, but in another sense violence against a baby doll is fine while violence against a live baby is not. One of the key differences is the baby is sentient, the doll is not. The doll can not experience the violence, so it’s morally irrelevant. The baby can experience the violence, so it is morally unacceptable. To the best of my knowledge plants can’t feel pain, so violence to them is morally irrelevant.
But I still accept that harm is unavoidable (at least in our time), but our response should be to minimize harm, not throw up our hands and give up and perpetuate the injustice
we agree violence should be minimized but I think it’s a hard sell to call the natural order injustice. Injustice for me is unnecessary harm. Justice can cause harm but only when necessary. Predators have to eat. Wiping them out is injustice and forcing unnatural foods alternatives is probably violating thier freedoms and damaging the ecosystem which I would also consider injustice.
why wouldn’t the natural order be unjust? Survival of the fittest doesn’t give two shits about justice, that’s not samething that gets selected for at all except in social species, and even then usually it’s only really selected for within the species
Well that’s a massive question that we certainly won’t see answered in our lifetime - we haven’t even figured out justice between humans, and we still have a long ways to go on just that front. I have some ideas on what a more just world might look like, but some are not feasible with the current state of the world. But I think a good place to start is with the original position/veil of ignorance thought experiment
I get that as a individual the system is cruel but at a planet level it could not be more fair. The world has balance (human shortsidedness aside) so I see it as justified.
This is one of things where I wonder if I lack imagination because only alternative I see is a tomb world. Which is out of the question so i ask myself do I simply accept what has been the cycle since the start of life on earth the only path or do I truly believe in the system. Like Stockholm syndrome.
Since I hate late stage capitalism I must not agree with the system but that thought only applies within sentient beings not on the planet scale we are discussing.
If I had viable alternatives would I side with you? Maybe i would.
This will a be fun passive thought.
In some sense it is violence, but in another sense violence against a baby doll is fine while violence against a live baby is not. One of the key differences is the baby is sentient, the doll is not. The doll can not experience the violence, so it’s morally irrelevant. The baby can experience the violence, so it is morally unacceptable. To the best of my knowledge plants can’t feel pain, so violence to them is morally irrelevant.
But I still accept that harm is unavoidable (at least in our time), but our response should be to minimize harm, not throw up our hands and give up and perpetuate the injustice
we agree violence should be minimized but I think it’s a hard sell to call the natural order injustice. Injustice for me is unnecessary harm. Justice can cause harm but only when necessary. Predators have to eat. Wiping them out is injustice and forcing unnatural foods alternatives is probably violating thier freedoms and damaging the ecosystem which I would also consider injustice.
why wouldn’t the natural order be unjust? Survival of the fittest doesn’t give two shits about justice, that’s not samething that gets selected for at all except in social species, and even then usually it’s only really selected for within the species
If it is unjust how do you make it just?
Well that’s a massive question that we certainly won’t see answered in our lifetime - we haven’t even figured out justice between humans, and we still have a long ways to go on just that front. I have some ideas on what a more just world might look like, but some are not feasible with the current state of the world. But I think a good place to start is with the original position/veil of ignorance thought experiment
I get that as a individual the system is cruel but at a planet level it could not be more fair. The world has balance (human shortsidedness aside) so I see it as justified. This is one of things where I wonder if I lack imagination because only alternative I see is a tomb world. Which is out of the question so i ask myself do I simply accept what has been the cycle since the start of life on earth the only path or do I truly believe in the system. Like Stockholm syndrome. Since I hate late stage capitalism I must not agree with the system but that thought only applies within sentient beings not on the planet scale we are discussing. If I had viable alternatives would I side with you? Maybe i would. This will a be fun passive thought.