is the man or bear thing rhetorically or optically the perfect feminist meme that is beyond criticism? no.

but is it leaps and bounds better at getting men to understand the material consequences of patriarchy on the physical and emotional health of women than that stupid “kill all men” meme from last decade? definitely.

  • spujb@lemmy.cafeOP
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    6 months ago

    Wonder if some women abusing men is patriarchy.

    Often true, yes.

    Or if some women shaming men for not being masculine enough is patriarchy.

    Very often true, yes.

    Or if some women asking for some sort of benefits over men is patriarchy.

    I don’t know what you are referencing but probably?

    If yes, the scope of “patriarchy” is so damn wide any reference to men (as in “patri-”) would be fair to be removed, and then we’d talk about antisexism in general.

    You are absolutely free to do this. :)

    Besides, can we truly talk for the case of patriarchy when the oppression comes from previous generations of men leading to issues of currently living ones? Current men are often oppressed by those measures, not empowered, and that contradicts the very notion of it.

    You are definitely in the right here! And these stories are often underrepresented in feminist/antisexist spaces. There is a community for this if you were interested: !mensliberation@lemmy.ca

    I’m always a bit confused by this desire of women to put entire antisexism movement under the feminism umbrella no matter what.

    I think it’s more of a tradition thing than anything. As in, feminism being the first antisexist theory, all other antisexist theories will find their historical roots in what feminists first described. But a valid insight.

    Why is it so important? What causes this desire for women alone to lead the way? Is it some sort of power struggle, fear of men stealing the topic and pushing another agenda?

    No, and this is where I encourage you to be careful. You are reading far too much into a name. See above again for what I believe is more of an occams razor explanation.

    We are here, and we recognize the issues of men and, to the extent we can, the issues of women. Let us fight our fight without trying to make it about women. We talk about men, and would be happy to have a community of both men and women to solve what can’t be solved on one side.

    Fully agree! I wish you the best in this and I’ll be there alongside you. ❤️

    • HauntedCupcake@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      6 months ago

      So when is a societal ill not the patriarchy? There doesn’t seem to be any delineation between what is and isn’t, so it almost seems like some sort of mysterious Satan figure

      • spujb@lemmy.cafeOP
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        6 months ago

        Good question!

        Handling this question is tricky, but I’ll give it a shot with some examples. It’s worth noting that there’s often overlap between different systems, where those in power in one area also benefit disproportionately in others. (This concept is a key part of intersectionality theory.)

        • White supremacy/racism
        • Capitalism/exploitation
        • Imperialism/colonialism
        • Ableism
        • Heteronormativity/homophobia/transphobia
        • HauntedCupcake@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          6 months ago

          Thank you for responding.

          What I’m getting is that patriarchy is a system that is structured in a way that it benefits (or disenfranchises less) those that are:

          • White
          • Wealthy
          • Born in a “Western” country?
          • Able bodied
          • Straight and cis gendered

          And that you can keep identifying different traits and expanding the list where relevant?

          • spujb@lemmy.cafeOP
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            6 months ago

            No that’s kind of the opposite of the point I was making. The patriarchy is only one of all those systems of oppression that I listed.

            There is a lot of crossover, yes, but I am not equivocating any of those. They are generally distinct.