• original_ish_name@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    It’s not the job of the the school staff to make the material extremely interesting, it’s their job to remove every more interesting thing from the reach of students.

    And this is how we reached the point where sleep is more common in a classroom than anything else. They should make the material interesting enough that people won’t have to resort to other stuff

    Read up on dopamine if you didn’t understand that.

    I know what dopamine (the joy hormone which the body uses as a “reward”) is. Since the body uses it as a “reward” if school gives students that, then students will like school

    • fosforus@sopuli.xyz
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      1 year ago

      They should make the material interesting enough that people won’t have to resort to other stuff

      Nope. It’s all relative. Compared to what’s available via the phone and internet, 90% of school material is fundamentally more boring, because important things are often boring – and there’s almost nothing you can do about it. I mean sure, an incompetent/unmotivated teacher can make the material even less interesting, but that’s also why we need competent teachers. That’s a separate problem.

      So the quest to make school material more interesting than the Internet is a dead end – it’s just impossible. So they need to make everything else less interesting. Which means that phones and computers can fuck right off. If there are kids for whom this is a difficult situation and they’re unable to cope, such kids will need intervention. I.e. restrictions in free time as well.

      • original_ish_name@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Did you hear what I said about dopamine being the “joy hormone” and used as a “reward”. Your body gives out happy hormones like this after an exercise and other good stuff for you (including school work if it is interesting)

        And don’t you tell me that knowledge isn’t interesting. For something to be interesting (by my definition) it must give you knowledge.

        Girls twerking on TikTok is not interesting - the way Hitler died is

        Memes are not interesting (unless they contain important info)

        These may produce dopamine in other ways but they are not interesting

        Which means that phones and computers can fuck right off.

        I could be considered “tech savvy”, I know a bit of C/PHP and a lot of shell script. Explain ro me how I could learn that without a computer (I’m also self-taught)

        So they need to make everything else less interesting.

        As I said, sleep is something that pupils prefer to schoolwork. Get schoolwork above a bar that low and then we can talk. Amyway, it just needs to be interesting enough that students won’t feel a need to check social media

        • fosforus@sopuli.xyz
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          1 year ago

          I could be considered “tech savvy”, I know a bit of C/PHP and a lot of shell script. Explain ro me how I could learn that without a computer (I’m also self-taught)

          By using the computer or phone at home. Roughly half of the programmer workforce currently alive went through childhood without a mobile phone, because they didn’t exist for regular consumers. And personal laptops for children would’ve been perhaps an option for the top 1%, but probably not even them. Since you just didn’t have electronics in school.

          • BarqsHasBite@lemmy.ca
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            1 year ago

            Way more than half. Let’s separate dumb phones from smart phones. Even smart phones weren’t all that capable for a long time.

        • PerCarita@discuss.tchncs.de
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          1 year ago

          Please don’t learn about how Hitler died through Tiktok. Befriend your librarian and read it in a book.

      • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        important things are often boring – and there’s almost nothing you can do about it.

        That’s downright ridiculous. The most important skill for a teacher is an ability to effectively impart knowledge and in order to make students listen and remember, you need to make them interested.

        So they need to make everything else less interesting.

        No, they ABSOLUTELY don’t. If I’m watching a fascinating TED Talk at home, I don’t need anyone to make my favourite tv show boring in order for me to pay attention. That’s not how attention works. For someone who seems at least dimly aware of the existence of dopamine, you seem remarkably confused about the effects of a lack of it.

        If there are kids for whom this is a difficult situation and they’re unable to cope, such kids will need intervention. I.e. restrictions in free time as well.

        So restrictions are your only tools? I really hope you’re not a teacher or a parent, because your ideas seem not just ineffective but actually borderline abusive.

        • fosforus@sopuli.xyz
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          1 year ago

          If I’m watching a fascinating TED Talk at home, I don’t need anyone to make my favourite tv show boring in order for me to pay attention.

          You’re comparing a TED Talk that you chose to watch to school curriculum.

          I really hope you’re not a teacher or a parent, because your ideas seem not just ineffective but actually borderline abusive.

          I’m a parent who has witnessed the effects of smart devices on children, and I have made serious mistakes in this area. Those mistakes are from being not restrictive enough. I believe the society has made similar mistakes, but is slowly turning to facing and understanding those mistakes. A generation has been lost, though, and some people (like yourself it seems) are still fighting against countering these problems. I hope you’re not in any role where you can decide these things, because I think your opinions around this seem very harmful to both individuals and society.

          • original_ish_name@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            I hope you’re not in any role where you can decide these things, because I think your opinions around this seem very harmful to both individuals and society.

            Ignoring what we’re fighting about, just think of what you said there. You are saying (correct me if I’m wrong) that we should just not allow people with opinions that contradict you to not have any power

            Sorry if I came off rude or I’m putting words in your mouth but stuff like that is not ideas I take lightly. I think it’s a threat to democracy

            EDIT: I also hate stuff like this that directly attacks the person with the ideas. I have noticed that the replies to you became a lot ruder after you said that (probably it rubbed off.) I thing it is important to be calm in a discussion


            Back to the topic


            You’re comparing a TED Talk that you chose to watch to school curriculum.

            Teachers regularly put informational videos (including TED talks) on in the classroom. It never becomes less interesting because it’s forced upon me - if anything their a nice change of pace

            Those mistakes are from being not restrictive enough

            Can you please elaborate. What “mistakes” did you make and what do you do now (also please elaborate on the “mistakes” society made)

            Also please elaborate on the “effect”

            • lightnsfw@reddthat.com
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              1 year ago

              Ignoring what we’re fighting about, just think of what you said there. You are saying (correct me if I’m wrong) that we should just not allow people with opinions that contradict you to not have any power

              No one should be basing policy decisions on opinions anyway. Those should be based off facts and data.

            • fosforus@sopuli.xyz
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              1 year ago

              Ignoring what we’re fighting about, just think of what you said there. You are saying (correct me if I’m wrong) that we should just not allow people with opinions that contradict you to not have any power

              That was a reaction to them saying that they hope I’m not a parent. Which I am. Obviously not a good reaction, but it happened.

              EDIT: I also hate stuff like this that directly attacks the person with the ideas. I have noticed that the replies to you became a lot ruder after you said that (probably it rubbed off.) I thing it is important to be calm in a discussion

              I feel that I was attacked first and replied with similar energy, but oh well. That’s how everyone feels in these things, right?

          • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            You’re comparing a TED Talk to school curriculum.

            It was supposed to be an easy to understand example of information being imparted in a more efficient way because it’s made interesting, not a one to one comparison. I felt that “listening to the teacher explain passionately and engagedly about the industrial revolution” was a bit clunky and on the nose.

            I guess I underestimated how literal I have to be when dealing with someone who can’t even imagine that pedagogy other than deprivation works.

            I’m a parent who has witnessed the effects of smart devices on children, and I have made serious mistakes in this area. Those mistakes are from being not restrictive enough.

            No, those mistakes have likely been mostly from increasing the temptation to goof off on their phones by boring them.

            • Ya_Boy_Skinny_Penis@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              I apologize, but your comments started stuoid and the devolved into ignorant nonsense, and thus poor other fella keeps engaging you like you’re capable of honest debate.

              Education has never been about being more interesting than games or entertainment, and you sound like a nitwit for even suggesting it. Teachers are tasked with educating, and the #1 preventable reason for kids falling behind isn’t “entertain me more!” . . . it’s shit parenting and upbringing.

              Kids lack impulse control worse than anyone – taking away cell phones is an absolute no-brainer.

    • TehPers@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      And this is how we reached the point where sleep is more common in a classroom than anything else.

      I think this has more to do with sleep deprivation. I can probably count the number of days I got a full night’s rest while in high school and college on one hand. Rather than making classes more interesting (though they could do this as well I guess), they should focus on not completely overwhelming the students with homework, although I’ll admit that was more of a college thing.