Not fair. It was a great cable. It came out when everyone else was using mini and mico usb which both sucked hard ass. They weren’t reversible, and they broke easily.
It was a good cable when it came out, but as soon as USB-C became common it was obsolete. It was limited to USB2 speeds and did not support fast charging.
Which, seeing how Apple is still hellbent on continuing to only have USB2 speeds even with USB-C, plus lockout chips, their new connector is obsolete as well.
Faster USB chipset is more expensive and potentially also physically larger with more traces on the circuit board to deal with I imagine. And faster data speeds require more attention to how the traces are routed to prevent interference. I very much doubt this is anything other than to save a relatively small amount on materials and engineering costs, on an already overpriced phone, and/or to try and “encourage” you to use iCloud by making offline sync and backup painfully slow.
As someone involved in engineering boards with both USB 2.0 and 3.0 the costs are negligible. You’re not wrong about more traces or about it requiring more attention but per phone this cost less then a few cents.
I think it’s more about the upsell to the Pro line or as you suggested encouraging use of iCloud.
As I remember it the USB 3.0 chips can cause interference in 2.4GHz range unless shielding is used and the USB chipset is kept far away from the 2.4Ghz antennas. Probably just “juice not worth the squeeze” on the smaller non-pro model, if there’s a significant chance it could interfere with Bluetooth and wifi.
USB-C is still not “common”. There are now all kinds of different cables with nothing in common except a form factor. Also, USB-C came out 2.5 years after lightning and didn’t match feature parity until the Thunderbolt spec and that was 5 years later. At that point, accessories and cables that used the Lightning port numbered in the millions, if not billions.
Also, what do you mean? The new phones support USB3…
How is USB-C not common? It’s the default for every remotely modern android phone I’ve seen, all the modern game consoles I’ve seen (eg, the Switch and PS5 controllers), and many other random electronics use it (I even had a covid tester that was plugged into USB-C). All my laptops these days use it (including two Chromebooks, a high end MacBook, and a Windows laptop) and of those, only the Windows laptop even had USB-A ports (ie, the other laptops only had USB-C).
I won’t pretend it’s perfectly ubiquitous. There’s lots of older electronics still using micro or mini USB (there’s been no reason for manufacturers to update older devices). But it’s definitely common in my book.
It’s not “common” in the sense that a USB-C connector can be all kinds of different implementations of the USB2/3 standards. To use your example, using a USB-C charger other than the default Nintendo one can short out a Switch completely and kill it. Compared to products that use Lightning, the number out there dwarves the current USB-C landscape. There are tons of devices that still use USB-A and USB-B and USB-C hubs don’t really exist.
In that case either the charger or the Switch was faulty, no matter the protocol in use, the devices should negotiate which charging profile to use. You can’t blame a non-spec implementation on the protocol, that’s on the manufacturer.
From what I’ve been able to see, that specific issue stems from a combination of cheap chargers/docking stations and Nintendo changing the USB-C port tolerances to allow smooth sliding in and out of the dock. Again, don’t blame the standard if the manufacturer decided to implement their own crappy version of it.
What’s funny to me is that the solution to long term use was in their hands. They could have licensed it cheaply to other devices until it replaced the mini USB, then charged whatever they wanted for use once it was the defacto standard. Instead they clasped too tightly onto it and now it’s being forced into retirement
With how many cheap android phones have been produced, they’d be making money even if someone wasn’t buying an apple product, essentially taking a piece of the market share that wasn’t theirs.
But they did not see themselves as a utility supplier. They preferred having the superior charging cable over licensing it to others. This way they protected their market share on Iphones.
I don’t know, maybe I’m just in a minority but personally I don’t care enough about what port is on a phone that that’s my primary concern when choosing a new phone. Sure, if a similarly spec’d phone at a similar price point drops I might take it into account, but for the most part I buy the best phone I can with the budget I have
I like USB type C, it’s a great connector and lightyears better than micro-b, or even micro-b 3.0 but the biggest issue I’ve come across is that it’s so easy to get dirt in the phone connector.
In fact a couple months back I had to sit there with a super thin safety pin and clean all the compacted shmutz that had gotten in my phone connector, bexause it was so bad the clamp wasn’t engaging at all, and cables were getting more and more unreliable. Once I got it cleaned every cable I’ve ever bought worked perfectly.
Ive never seen the dirt issue or the clamp mechanism breaking on a lightning connector before - neither on my parents phones, or on the spare phone we keep as one of those old backup phones if someone’s phone gets smashed or drowned. But it’s not really saying much as I never kept the backup phone for long, as I hate apple and iPhones, so it’s entirely possible that under longer term use with me specifically that it could’ve got broken or dirty due to my uniquely rough way of handling things .
my current pixel 3a has a thick protective case, which has kept it mostly undamaged over the years I’ve had it, despite many drop events. The only thing that has stopped working on it was the NFC reader, and so far I’ve managed to avoid breaking the screen. I’ll probably keep using it till it stops functioning at this rate, as options for new phones don’t really fit my needs or wants.
I used to run a repair shop. USB-C is definitely a dust magnet. Lightning is no better though. I cleaned just as many Lightning ports as I did C ports. They were slightly easier to clean though, without that fragile central post getting in the way.
I’ve also worked on literally tens of thousands of iPhones, and have never seen the clamp break on a lightning port, so idk what that dude is talking about. The actual clamp is on the cable, it just sits in a hole inside the port along either wall.
I’ve cleaned out plenty of Lightning ports over the years. Filled with gunk. Most of the time the connector would still work, but in some cases intermittently or not at all.
I am on my third usb-module on my phone. Luckily it is replaceable. I would really like the concept of sticking a . in a o (as it is with lightning) than to have an . in a O and fiddling a o between both (as in USB-C). I have never lost a cable through wear and tear so far though…
It was a piece of shit, always. Doesn’t matter if it was technically better, it was not standardized so fuck lightning cables forever. Good riddance to seriously awful bullshit rubbish
As someone who has had 2 small fires started in their cup holder with that so called “technically better” cable I will never understand how apple was ever able to market an exposed contact charging cable in the first place.
Do you approach your life with such black and white emotional reactions? Fuck nuance, details, and critical evaluations, amirite? Bad guy good guy hurrdurr.
Standards can be good, it’s not black and white, and dismissing the technical merit outright is batshit insane. You lack critical thinking. It has nothing to do with any other meaningless term you want to throw around.
Yeah, I still think it’s a great mechanical interface, if not the best. Would’ve been great if rather than killing it, regulatory bodies had forced USB to adopt the lightning design for the C type.
Lightning doesn’t have near the capabilities of USB C. … pretty clear that USB C is superior.
Are you talking about the capabilities of the USB protocol 3.x, or the mechanical design like I was? I don’t know a single property where the mechanical design of USB is superior to Lightning, but I’m ready to be enlightened.
For example having 3x the pins is a big plus. I don’t know why you are so focused on not including the protocols a port can use. Apple will most likely use USB to make connections between PCs and their Phones possible. And you have to have connectors capable of carrying the signals for those protocols.
The huge speeds of USB 3.0 (USB 3.2 Gen 1x1) and up are because of added twisted pairs carrying the signals in duplex (Plus a new USB A connector). Anything above USB 3.2 (USB 3.2 Gen 1x2 and USB 3.2 Gen 3 2x2) needs to use USB-C because the older USB-A Connector doesn’t have enough pins to allow a connection to a cable with 4 twisted pairs (plus one for backwards compatibility).
I think the lighting connector is enough to allow for a USB 3.0 connection, but you would have to switch the signals after it comes out of the port somehow, as the 3rd pair is not used during FullSpeed (I think there’s an adapter that does this)
Even if they don’t use USB and develope their own protocol, it’s gonna benefit from more parralel connections
One area where that is the case is the clamping mechanism. With USB-C, the moving parts/springs, which are the part of a connector that is most prone to failute are in the cable, which is both easier and significantly cheaper to replace than the charging port/device.
I don’t think this design could have work for USB 3.1 and more, even apple put USB -c as PD on there MacBook because it can deliver more watt (I think)
Not fair. It was a great cable. It came out when everyone else was using mini and mico usb which both sucked hard ass. They weren’t reversible, and they broke easily.
It was a good cable when it came out, but as soon as USB-C became common it was obsolete. It was limited to USB2 speeds and did not support fast charging.
Which, seeing how Apple is still hellbent on continuing to only have USB2 speeds even with USB-C, plus lockout chips, their new connector is obsolete as well.
I still don’t understand the reason for the speed limit tbh. It just makes their product look like shit.
Faster USB chipset is more expensive and potentially also physically larger with more traces on the circuit board to deal with I imagine. And faster data speeds require more attention to how the traces are routed to prevent interference. I very much doubt this is anything other than to save a relatively small amount on materials and engineering costs, on an already overpriced phone, and/or to try and “encourage” you to use iCloud by making offline sync and backup painfully slow.
As someone involved in engineering boards with both USB 2.0 and 3.0 the costs are negligible. You’re not wrong about more traces or about it requiring more attention but per phone this cost less then a few cents.
I think it’s more about the upsell to the Pro line or as you suggested encouraging use of iCloud.
As I remember it the USB 3.0 chips can cause interference in 2.4GHz range unless shielding is used and the USB chipset is kept far away from the 2.4Ghz antennas. Probably just “juice not worth the squeeze” on the smaller non-pro model, if there’s a significant chance it could interfere with Bluetooth and wifi.
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USB-C is still not “common”. There are now all kinds of different cables with nothing in common except a form factor. Also, USB-C came out 2.5 years after lightning and didn’t match feature parity until the Thunderbolt spec and that was 5 years later. At that point, accessories and cables that used the Lightning port numbered in the millions, if not billions.
Also, what do you mean? The new phones support USB3…
How is USB-C not common? It’s the default for every remotely modern android phone I’ve seen, all the modern game consoles I’ve seen (eg, the Switch and PS5 controllers), and many other random electronics use it (I even had a covid tester that was plugged into USB-C). All my laptops these days use it (including two Chromebooks, a high end MacBook, and a Windows laptop) and of those, only the Windows laptop even had USB-A ports (ie, the other laptops only had USB-C).
I won’t pretend it’s perfectly ubiquitous. There’s lots of older electronics still using micro or mini USB (there’s been no reason for manufacturers to update older devices). But it’s definitely common in my book.
It’s not “common” in the sense that a USB-C connector can be all kinds of different implementations of the USB2/3 standards. To use your example, using a USB-C charger other than the default Nintendo one can short out a Switch completely and kill it. Compared to products that use Lightning, the number out there dwarves the current USB-C landscape. There are tons of devices that still use USB-A and USB-B and USB-C hubs don’t really exist.
In that case either the charger or the Switch was faulty, no matter the protocol in use, the devices should negotiate which charging profile to use. You can’t blame a non-spec implementation on the protocol, that’s on the manufacturer.
From what I’ve been able to see, that specific issue stems from a combination of cheap chargers/docking stations and Nintendo changing the USB-C port tolerances to allow smooth sliding in and out of the dock. Again, don’t blame the standard if the manufacturer decided to implement their own crappy version of it.
Only the Pro models, I believe. Funnily enough, typical Apple too, since they are bundling only a usb2.0 cable in the box for the Pro as well.
And technically the connector itself is way beter by clicking into place.
And they made sure no one else could develop a design with the same characteristics by patenting the fuck out of it. Thanks apple
What’s funny to me is that the solution to long term use was in their hands. They could have licensed it cheaply to other devices until it replaced the mini USB, then charged whatever they wanted for use once it was the defacto standard. Instead they clasped too tightly onto it and now it’s being forced into retirement
With how many cheap android phones have been produced, they’d be making money even if someone wasn’t buying an apple product, essentially taking a piece of the market share that wasn’t theirs.
But they did not see themselves as a utility supplier. They preferred having the superior charging cable over licensing it to others. This way they protected their market share on Iphones.
I don’t know, maybe I’m just in a minority but personally I don’t care enough about what port is on a phone that that’s my primary concern when choosing a new phone. Sure, if a similarly spec’d phone at a similar price point drops I might take it into account, but for the most part I buy the best phone I can with the budget I have
And then bundled it with a 5W charger?
No, if the clamp-mechanism breaks, you habe to replace the connector on the phone while with UsbC you only have to use a different cable.
I like USB type C, it’s a great connector and lightyears better than micro-b, or even micro-b 3.0 but the biggest issue I’ve come across is that it’s so easy to get dirt in the phone connector.
In fact a couple months back I had to sit there with a super thin safety pin and clean all the compacted shmutz that had gotten in my phone connector, bexause it was so bad the clamp wasn’t engaging at all, and cables were getting more and more unreliable. Once I got it cleaned every cable I’ve ever bought worked perfectly.
Ive never seen the dirt issue or the clamp mechanism breaking on a lightning connector before - neither on my parents phones, or on the spare phone we keep as one of those old backup phones if someone’s phone gets smashed or drowned. But it’s not really saying much as I never kept the backup phone for long, as I hate apple and iPhones, so it’s entirely possible that under longer term use with me specifically that it could’ve got broken or dirty due to my uniquely rough way of handling things .
my current pixel 3a has a thick protective case, which has kept it mostly undamaged over the years I’ve had it, despite many drop events. The only thing that has stopped working on it was the NFC reader, and so far I’ve managed to avoid breaking the screen. I’ll probably keep using it till it stops functioning at this rate, as options for new phones don’t really fit my needs or wants.
I used to run a repair shop. USB-C is definitely a dust magnet. Lightning is no better though. I cleaned just as many Lightning ports as I did C ports. They were slightly easier to clean though, without that fragile central post getting in the way.
I’ve also worked on literally tens of thousands of iPhones, and have never seen the clamp break on a lightning port, so idk what that dude is talking about. The actual clamp is on the cable, it just sits in a hole inside the port along either wall.
I’ve cleaned out plenty of Lightning ports over the years. Filled with gunk. Most of the time the connector would still work, but in some cases intermittently or not at all.
Huh, I guess you’ve proved me wrong with that one. I will say though I wonder which one is easier to clean out. Can someone whose done both comment?
I am on my third usb-module on my phone. Luckily it is replaceable. I would really like the concept of sticking a . in a o (as it is with lightning) than to have an . in a O and fiddling a o between both (as in USB-C). I have never lost a cable through wear and tear so far though…
Yeah if… the rest of your comment is nonsense. If a usb-c connector breaks on the phone a new cable is just as useless.
Doesn’t matter how great the cable is, when it is proprietary it stinks.
It was a piece of shit, always. Doesn’t matter if it was technically better, it was not standardized so fuck lightning cables forever. Good riddance to seriously awful bullshit rubbish
As someone who has had 2 small fires started in their cup holder with that so called “technically better” cable I will never understand how apple was ever able to market an exposed contact charging cable in the first place.
Wow, hadn’t heard about that but it makes sense. Yeah this thread is way weird. So many people simping for a cable.
Do you approach your life with such black and white emotional reactions? Fuck nuance, details, and critical evaluations, amirite? Bad guy good guy hurrdurr.
I’m not going to argue why standards are good, that’s self evident. Sorry you’re blind to this.
How’s this for nuance? Apple made billions of dollars by just choosing to be dicks. That’s the honest truth here. Simp all you want.
Standards can be good, it’s not black and white, and dismissing the technical merit outright is batshit insane. You lack critical thinking. It has nothing to do with any other meaningless term you want to throw around.
Right the person looking to advance society with standards can’t think critically but the person who sucks off apple against logic is a brain master.
Your lack of assessment is even more evident. I never one mentioned the company. You did.
Lol yeah that’s how it works
Yeah, I still think it’s a great mechanical interface, if not the best. Would’ve been great if rather than killing it, regulatory bodies had forced USB to adopt the lightning design for the C type.
Lightning doesn’t have near the capabilities of USB C. Lightning had its time but it’s pretty clear that USB C is superior.
Are you talking about the capabilities of the USB protocol 3.x, or the mechanical design like I was? I don’t know a single property where the mechanical design of USB is superior to Lightning, but I’m ready to be enlightened.
For example having 3x the pins is a big plus. I don’t know why you are so focused on not including the protocols a port can use. Apple will most likely use USB to make connections between PCs and their Phones possible. And you have to have connectors capable of carrying the signals for those protocols.
The huge speeds of USB 3.0 (USB 3.2 Gen 1x1) and up are because of added twisted pairs carrying the signals in duplex (Plus a new USB A connector). Anything above USB 3.2 (USB 3.2 Gen 1x2 and USB 3.2 Gen 3 2x2) needs to use USB-C because the older USB-A Connector doesn’t have enough pins to allow a connection to a cable with 4 twisted pairs (plus one for backwards compatibility).
I think the lighting connector is enough to allow for a USB 3.0 connection, but you would have to switch the signals after it comes out of the port somehow, as the 3rd pair is not used during FullSpeed (I think there’s an adapter that does this)
Even if they don’t use USB and develope their own protocol, it’s gonna benefit from more parralel connections
The mechanical design was patented by apple, THEY decided that others were not allowed to use it (unless they pay).
One area where that is the case is the clamping mechanism. With USB-C, the moving parts/springs, which are the part of a connector that is most prone to failute are in the cable, which is both easier and significantly cheaper to replace than the charging port/device.
I don’t think this design could have work for USB 3.1 and more, even apple put USB -c as PD on there MacBook because it can deliver more watt (I think)
but yeah it was much better design than micro usb