Also the origins of the term “woke” in this context basically means “informed” and like… I dunno. That’s what I see too in the woke/anti-woke dichotomy in modern times as well. Its about information vs misinformation. The anti-woke folks consistently push an anti-woke agenda centered around making sure the populace isn’t informed
No its not and that you talk like that is literally just my point. Arrogant behavior and inability to live with different opinions on most topics, talking about everyone else as uninformed and dumb or believing conspiracy “theories” like “the evil wrong thinkers want everyone to stay dumb” “the jews are in charge of everything” and several like minded “theories”
Jesus Christ what the fuck are you talking about. Lemme break this down real quick, I guess
Yes it is. That’s where it comes from in African-American Vernacular. Denying that is… Weird
I don’t mind differing opinions. I do mind misinformation.
I didn’t call anyone dumb. I think politicians like Ron DeSantis don’t want us to teach history because they know we’re not dumb, and the only way to keep us under their thumbs is to keep us uninformed
When did I say anything about conspiracy theories? What conspiracy theories do you think I believe in
The Jews are not in charge of everything WHAT THE FUCK ARE TOU TALKING ABOUT. Why are you painting me with that brush? That’s… Weird.
This wasn’t a attack against you personally, but again thats what i mean, no ability to differentiate or see the problems of the own group.
Oh and people like DeSantis are actual Nazis 100% agree on that, but the people in the woke spectrum don’t make a difference between these people and people that just have another opinion about things.
Because the woke people mean is tankie woke and that can be boiled down to several key points: Russia and China dick sucking, Israel hate (wich is antisemitism) inability to hear different opinions without getting a mental breakdown, everything not woke being “nazi” and so on. That’s the point where society is currently.
Hi. Jewish person here. Thinking Israel as a fascist regime is not antisemitic. Its just… Looking at what they’re doing and assessing it for what it is
I think we should not go down that rabbit hole. In the war between Israel and Gaza both sides did and do horrible things. Deciding which of the two sides is more evil is just not helping anybody.
Not saying either side is more evil right now. I’m just saying Israel is a fascist state. Because they are. This is something I’ve been saying since before I knew about Palestine. Israel is a fascist state. They have done nothing in the last 20 years to convince me they deserve to be seen in another light. They have every aspect of Umberto Ecco’s ur-fascism
Ok then. I have no knowledge in that regard, so I won’t disagree 😅
In my ears “fascist” is usually including nazis (I am from Germany, so for me these 2 words have a “special bond” so to speak)
That’s nither what i said nor what i meant, criticism of Netanjahu is absolutely legit, but starting free Palestinia protests a day after 7. October is antisemitism. I didn’t say that Israel didn’t do anything wrong, i just said that many woke spectrum people believe that Israel has no right to defend itself and that these people come with arguments like “Palestine doesn’t have a iron dome” or just straight up support hamas.
Criticism of the faschistoid Israeli government isn’t Israel hate.
However i must say that a singular Jewish person doesn’t decide whats antisemitism and not and that a single person doesn’t speak for a entire ethnicity. I understand your point though.
I guess we are running in different circles (which is likely, cause we probably don’t live in the same country :D ). I do not perceive it this way. The black and white thinking is a big problem social media is not helping with (and I don’t accuse you of it, its just a fact)
Yes shure, but the black and white thing is what i understand as woke, we good everyone else evil, different opinions unwelcome, even if just slightly different. And thats what im seeing on LW as well.
I can definitely live with different opinions where opinions are reasonable (i don’t accept “opinions” that are just antisemitism or LGBT hate and similar things, actual racism and sexism just aren’t opinions) thats the problem, you cant reason with most people in the woke spectrum, the original idea of woke was being aware of racism and informing about it, great goal, but the “woke” now is as said basically a religion of close minded people.
Sounds to me like it is more about the people aggressively proclaiming “we good everyone else evil” and not so much about the actual people that are being called woke by the likes of trump and other right wing extremists… The people who actually think of themselves as woke are usually not in the extreme spectrum you are referring to.
I would think of myself as “woke” and I very much agree with your statement:
I can definitely live with different opinions where opinions are reasonable (i don’t accept “opinions” that are just antisemitism or LGBT hate and similar things, actual racism and sexism just aren’t opinions)
The woke the trumpists mean is just the new word for communism/socialism. They would definitely call me woke, while the actual woke would call me a conservative and the people i understand as woke did and do call me literally Hitler.
I don’t want to be associated with woke, especially not in my country (they played themselves into a corner and get more and more radical but that story would fill a 3 part documentary) but i do definitely align with a big portion of their reasonable points, in some points i have a little different perspective and therefore a slightly other stance, but thats already enough for the woke I mean to call me Nazi/literally Hitler. And the people i think of call themselves woke publicly or even argue that woke is a term that can only apply to black people because they started it (wich i would consider racism)
What is pretty much obvious from our debate here is that the meaning of a “woke” is depending on the person you ask. So maybe we should just not use that term when we want to criticize something, because nobody knows what exactly is meant by it.
But just FYI I have no idea which country you’re from or who the people are you’re referring to
Honestly it looks like a heated debate about the community bans of the OP of that post 😅
Honestly I think it is hilarious how people keep whining about lemmy.world being too woke 😁
I mean LW is very obviously super woke, at least their mods and admins and such posts just show it.
So what? I don’t get why “being woke” would be a negative thing
Also the origins of the term “woke” in this context basically means “informed” and like… I dunno. That’s what I see too in the woke/anti-woke dichotomy in modern times as well. Its about information vs misinformation. The anti-woke folks consistently push an anti-woke agenda centered around making sure the populace isn’t informed
No its not and that you talk like that is literally just my point. Arrogant behavior and inability to live with different opinions on most topics, talking about everyone else as uninformed and dumb or believing conspiracy “theories” like “the evil wrong thinkers want everyone to stay dumb” “the jews are in charge of everything” and several like minded “theories”
Jesus Christ what the fuck are you talking about. Lemme break this down real quick, I guess
This wasn’t a attack against you personally, but again thats what i mean, no ability to differentiate or see the problems of the own group.
Oh and people like DeSantis are actual Nazis 100% agree on that, but the people in the woke spectrum don’t make a difference between these people and people that just have another opinion about things.
What other opinions do you have about things?
Because the woke people mean is tankie woke and that can be boiled down to several key points: Russia and China dick sucking, Israel hate (wich is antisemitism) inability to hear different opinions without getting a mental breakdown, everything not woke being “nazi” and so on. That’s the point where society is currently.
Hi. Jewish person here. Thinking Israel as a fascist regime is not antisemitic. Its just… Looking at what they’re doing and assessing it for what it is
I think we should not go down that rabbit hole. In the war between Israel and Gaza both sides did and do horrible things. Deciding which of the two sides is more evil is just not helping anybody.
Not saying either side is more evil right now. I’m just saying Israel is a fascist state. Because they are. This is something I’ve been saying since before I knew about Palestine. Israel is a fascist state. They have done nothing in the last 20 years to convince me they deserve to be seen in another light. They have every aspect of Umberto Ecco’s ur-fascism
Ok then. I have no knowledge in that regard, so I won’t disagree 😅 In my ears “fascist” is usually including nazis (I am from Germany, so for me these 2 words have a “special bond” so to speak)
That’s nither what i said nor what i meant, criticism of Netanjahu is absolutely legit, but starting free Palestinia protests a day after 7. October is antisemitism. I didn’t say that Israel didn’t do anything wrong, i just said that many woke spectrum people believe that Israel has no right to defend itself and that these people come with arguments like “Palestine doesn’t have a iron dome” or just straight up support hamas.
Criticism of the faschistoid Israeli government isn’t Israel hate.
However i must say that a singular Jewish person doesn’t decide whats antisemitism and not and that a single person doesn’t speak for a entire ethnicity. I understand your point though.
I guess we are running in different circles (which is likely, cause we probably don’t live in the same country :D ). I do not perceive it this way. The black and white thinking is a big problem social media is not helping with (and I don’t accuse you of it, its just a fact)
Yes shure, but the black and white thing is what i understand as woke, we good everyone else evil, different opinions unwelcome, even if just slightly different. And thats what im seeing on LW as well.
I can definitely live with different opinions where opinions are reasonable (i don’t accept “opinions” that are just antisemitism or LGBT hate and similar things, actual racism and sexism just aren’t opinions) thats the problem, you cant reason with most people in the woke spectrum, the original idea of woke was being aware of racism and informing about it, great goal, but the “woke” now is as said basically a religion of close minded people.
Sounds to me like it is more about the people aggressively proclaiming “we good everyone else evil” and not so much about the actual people that are being called woke by the likes of trump and other right wing extremists… The people who actually think of themselves as woke are usually not in the extreme spectrum you are referring to.
I would think of myself as “woke” and I very much agree with your statement:
The woke the trumpists mean is just the new word for communism/socialism. They would definitely call me woke, while the actual woke would call me a conservative and the people i understand as woke did and do call me literally Hitler.
I don’t want to be associated with woke, especially not in my country (they played themselves into a corner and get more and more radical but that story would fill a 3 part documentary) but i do definitely align with a big portion of their reasonable points, in some points i have a little different perspective and therefore a slightly other stance, but thats already enough for the woke I mean to call me Nazi/literally Hitler. And the people i think of call themselves woke publicly or even argue that woke is a term that can only apply to black people because they started it (wich i would consider racism)
What is pretty much obvious from our debate here is that the meaning of a “woke” is depending on the person you ask. So maybe we should just not use that term when we want to criticize something, because nobody knows what exactly is meant by it.
But just FYI I have no idea which country you’re from or who the people are you’re referring to