A number of people who I have known to have that mindset faced a lot of hardship growing up. They had so much working against them for so long that it’s hard for them to see instances when they have control or to understand when some things are actually their fault.
That’s all fair unless you help yourself, ain’t nobody helping you.
I [do] understand why people are victim whores but I haven zero respect for it or tolerance. Unless that person is looking to engage in solution discussions.
Maybe start with empathy next time.
I don’t waste my time on victim whores anymore… I got family and friends to take care of.
This exactly, the person I am thinking of fits this description. They just seem to mostly blame their troubles on others.
Hey BigDotNet, I can’t help but notice the type of questions you’ve been asking, and I’m curious if you’re interested in learning about the perspectives of others, or if you’re just looking to get people riled up for some other reason.
Didn’t seem like you’re interacting with the responses very much., and that makes it feel like you might have some ulterior motive.
So, what’s your deal?
I just want to know what people think here in Lemmy, just that genuine curiosity.
🤔
Nobody likes people not accepting responsibility for their own actions. Duh.
At the same time, who am I to say that something isn’t or wasn’t as hard on someone as they say? Shouldn’t we believe people when they say a thing is a burden for them? Doubly so if we ourselves don’t have first-hand knowledge of it, such as poverty, or race, or gender?
Yes, I have a close friend who sometimes irritates me by how she keeps saying she can’t do X because Y, or failed at Z due to Q, but in the end her feelings are true and valid even if they seem irrational to me. And she’s so much more than that.
Define victim mentality with examples perhaps?
I couldn’t find it to show you, but I remember an episode of The Osbournes where Ozzy put the pet food bowl in the middle of the kitchen, Sharon warned him “don’t do this, you’ll eventually kick it”, then after some time Ozzy kicked the bowl and blamed their pet for moving the bowl to that position.
I don’t know if Ozzy has victim mentality, but people with victim mentality do this sort of thing all the time - they never acknowledge that they did something that caused them an issue. And that’s bad for both the ones around them and for themselves.
People who blame anyone else or anything else for all the bad things what happens to them except themselves, like if they are always a victim of external things.
Sounds like a narcissist, like Trump or Jez from Peep Show.
Not a healthy outlook and works well to prevent self reflection.
I mean clearly those people do exist, so I’m curious if you have something specific in mind? Kinda feels like asking how people feel about folks with anger issues. Not great but they exist?
Person bitching about economic unfairness but doesn’t spend their money wisely…
Yeah the economics is shot for vast majority of people but no amount of good economy can fix fool with his money.
This could be a good example of what I have in mind.
There’s a lot of doomsaying people on this platform. “Boomers reaped all the resources, so now I can’t buy a house and won’t ever get a pension” or “capitalism is fueling climate change, so now we’re all gonna die”. I’m not saying they’re not valid complaints, but It’s very unhelpful to complain about these things that you cannot change unless you do something about it. I respect climate activists who march the streets and get arrested every week or even gen z’ers who think of all kinds of alternative living arrangements like boats or coops , but these doomsayers aren’t making any effort to change any thing, just complain and cry.
My mom and dad used to argue, or debate is probably a better word, about this.
My dad’s family was pretty well off and one of his great aunts had been a lawyer, toward the turn of the century (1900-1920ish) and he thought women could do anything men could, that there were NO social restrictions or any real discrimination that you couldn’t address by simply pointing it out and doing what you want. That women were just sort of brainwashed to think there were outside-imposed limits, society was not a strong force compared to individual will.
My mom’s family was poor, her grandma was a very accomplished farmer, midwife, had taken in men during the depression, put them to work on her farm, fed and housed them, but my mom’s mom was a wife, her husband beat her (but never my mom) and didn’t think she should have any life except in relation to him, she never did work outside the house and didn’t seem to have any opportunity to, my mom saw how social forces worked to keep her and other women down, she didn’t think women could just up and go do whatever, unless they had their own money and property like my dad’s aunts did.
I think the answer is between them, but mostly think the only thing you really have control over is yourself so what you do is the bigger factor. So I think people who feel like everything outside of them is holding them back - it’s unproductive even if true. You might not be able to address the victimizing factors, but how do you even know if you don’t try?
I think negativity in general sort of bugs me. One of my coworkers is so negative. Since she’s worked with us she’s dropped like 70 lb to reach a good weight, gotten her eyes fixed, had a grandchild, so much good she could celebrate but only she sees the bad, what is wrong not what is right!
Yeah my wife is this. I think it’s the direct result of bad stuff happening and getting told it’s not your fault. At some point you start believing nothing is your fault. The other side of it is believing everything is your fault.
It’s a matter of responsibility. Taking responsibility for everything is hard on you. Taking responsibility for nothing makes your actions hard on others.
The other side of it is believing everything is your fault.
Yeah, both are problematic. And for the same reason - the person does not learn to accurately identify when they’re responsible for something and should do something about it, although for different reasons.
Just wondering, the parents of your wife are together? Or she came from a single parent house?
They split when she was 3. Stayed with her mum. She remarried but that didn’t last.
Thx for the answers 👍👍 much appreciated…
Used to have it. Got rid of it. Happier now. Avoiding people who suffers from it.
The entirety of the woke movement is about blaming everything on other people except yourself. Mlk went and did somthing and demanded equal rights the current woke mob blames everyone else tries to tell others what they can and cant do while not actually doing anythibg productive.
Can you define the “woke movement” and “woke” in general, in the context of what you’re saying?
I’m asking because I’ve seen “woke” used for a video game that happens to have one gay character in it, which doesn’t seem relevant for what you’re talking about (for example). Or any number of things that are simply people existing. And other times it’s used for referencing social justice issues. It seems fairly amorphous, and entirely dependent on the person mentioning it, so without some context I can’t nail down what you mean unless you define it for you.
I find that people who use the term woke, are refering to an imagined enemy that they are unable to define very well. It means “Those extremely unreasonable people I am told about that probably exist somewhere.”. It’s a convenient, etherial enemy to blame problems on.
Admittedly the definition is hard to pin down but clearly the thing exists or the word wouldn’t have taken off so quickly.
Roughly, it refers to the worldview in which group power dynamics are all-determining, where race is destiny, where the individual takes a back seat, and where the only possibly solution is some form of reverse discrimination - but even that will never work, really, because injustice is destiny.
It exists, quite few people believe these things, far far more of them hate it, and that’s why the peak woke moment seems to have passed. Mercifully.
In the context of my statement, ‘woke’ refers to an ideology that focuses on social injustice and advocates for change. However, the ‘woke movement’ as I see it, often includes individuals who blame societal problems on others and demand changes without taking personal responsibility themselves. While Martin Luther King Jr. tirelessly worked to achieve equal rights, many ‘woke’ individuals today seem more interested in controlling what others do or say while posting worthless hastags instead of actually doing anything.
I’m a bit more confused, because when you me tion it referring to an ideology that focuses on social injustice and advocates for change, and reference MLK’s efforts, it seems like you support the general idea. And I would agree!
I guess I’m just confused on the “personal responsibility” portion. It’s my understanding that most of the “woke” issues are gay and trans rights and police reform (and combating systemic racism in policing). So other than demanding change, protesting, and voting, I’m not sure where the “personal responsibility” would come in.
Did u read the second half of what i wrote or are u ignoring it for convenience sake?
I have the same feelings for people who blame immigrants for all their problems.
- Boss earns 10x+ your salary? It’s those bloody immigrants’ fault for coming and increasing competition!
- Union tries to form and there’s no solidarity amongst workers? You bet those immigrants are to blame!
- Not enough staff for sanitation, education, and healthcare so the government flies in workers from abroad? My oh my are those immigrants to blame for accepting jobs given to them.
- People flee from the countries our elite bombs, exploits, and corrupts? Blame them for fleeing and coming here, not the elite!
- Billionaires don’t pay taxes and lobby the fuck out of politicians to get hand outs? Look at those immigrants and poor people getting hand outs! Gotta get them out of the country!
So who do these low and middle class people vote for? Politicians who continuously fuck over the middle and lower class. Do they organize themselves to demand higher wages, better living standards, more investment in public infrastructure? No, they demand “smaller government”, less affordable healthcare, bigger paychecks for their bosses so that it “trickles down”, they follow online propaganda that blames others and convinces them that other middle class and poor people are against them, they buy goods from monopolies and even proudly promote these monopolies, they idolize the rich and elite who don’t give a fuck about them, and of course they blame those who are struggling or even those who immigrate to provide much needed services.
Racists, xenophobes, and right-wingers in general are just as snow-flakey as the “woke mob”. They exacerbate the problems they have then blame whichever scapegoat they can find that can’t punch back. They’re just weak and don’t want to fight a strong, rich, well-connected opponent - they want to let out their frustrations against a weaker opponent: they’re bullies.
People who blame immigrants are also in the same blame everyone else boat.
Racists, xenophobes, and right-wingers in general are just as snow-flakey as the “woke mob”.
Im so glad you agree that the right is just as bad as the left you are halfway toward getting out of the box.
Ohh and btw i come from a first would country with a national minimum wage almost triple what u have in some states, socialised healthcare, and schools without ar15s. So u keep being a good little soldier fighting for ur side of a culture war invented by the elites to distract you from the fact u live in a third world country run by a dementia patient.
There’s a massive gulf between what progressives say and do and what the alt-right online influencers claim they do. Perhaps the reason you haven’t heard of anything productive progressives have done is that you get all your news from people who do not want them to appear reasonable and so leave out anything reasonable that they do. These days woke is a word used only by those trying to denigrate the progressive left. Because Woke is a strawman. An empty vessel for you to fill with hate. A totem to represent all the ways in which society is changing that you don’t like.
I can think of nothing less productive than putting down a hollow strawman.
So you are not woke?
I thought that was the GOP
I mean the first person to come to mind when I heard victim mentality was Donald Trump.
Lost an election: It was rigged.
Impeached twice and convicted of 34 felonies by a jury of his peers: I was targeted by the justice system.
Can’t form a coherent sentence during a debate: I HATE TAYLOR SWIFT!
Asked to explain his position or plan for anything at all: Why are you so mean and nasty?
Yeah. I think you hit the nail on the head there.
Wokism needs more John Browns, am I right?
Do you think they are happy the way they are or they just pretend to be it but are truly unhappy?
Nobody is happy its called the human condition. The wokes are unwilling to admit that any part of their shitty situation (despite being better than a majority of human history) is their fault and as a result must blame someone else. They think they want equality of outcome and dont realise that if they achieve that it wont be enough.
Maybe they just want a future where billionaires aren’t burning down the planet.
Course they could pick up pitchforks and take matters into their own hands. Quit blaming other people for their problems right?
If i where to agree with your argument then the wokes would do the only thing they can and ban me for my speach cos that would be advocating for violence. That being said i stand by my argument of they shpuld take action to achieve their goals and quit whining blaming everyone else.
By “Take action” do you mean building a gallows outside the Capital for the Vice President, and assaulting police officers in order to trespass and interfere with the results of an election that nobody has been able to find evidence of fraud?
Is that the kind of “taking action” that will make people earn equality?
At what point have people suffered enough that they deserve to be treated with respect? What action have YOU taken to deserve any of the rights you currently enjoy?
I dont agree with them but they certainly took someone effective action. Imagine if a climate protest executed the american VP do u think any pro oil world leader would ever feel as though they and their family is safe ever again? I dont support this but it seems u should read a little about the french revolution. My ancestors got my rights for me back when we owned all the land.
How was it effective? People were injured and killed over a lie. No fraud was revealed, no elections were overturned. It was the opposite of effective, there were costs to everyone involved and ABSOLUTELY NOBODY GOT ANYTHING OUT OF IT.
Ok, so YOU did nothing to earn your rights. Why do you expect other people to have to fight hard enough to earn your approval before THEY deserve the same rights you were handed at birth?
I and Just Stop Oil are glad of your support and understanding.
Research has shown that just stop oil is achieving its goals very effectively.
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So you will continue to complain while doing nothing?
