After everything that’s happened with trump, you guys elect him the 2nd time.
You guys suck.
I don’t know how normal it is to be registered in the US but I would assume the target were moderate voters, not party members
They will never court the left, never.
meanwhile im already seeing “moderate” “pundits” saying the reason Harris lost is because she was too woke and Democrats need to move further right 🙃
America’s far left is just normal shit.
“Hey how about everybody gets food and can see the doctor”
“How about suck my dick and be my slave”
“Whoa whoa you two, let’s be civil. Especially you, first guy 😠”
Too scared of the spooky communism👻👻
A spectre is haunting the United States 👻
America’s left is what you describe as the far-left, but the far-left is much the same as it is everywhere else, Marxists and Anarchists. The far-left is relatively consistent internationally because its built on centuries of theory and practice.
America’s democratic party is much further right than any left leaning European party. Yet, even in the countries where those are or have been in power, the scary communist vision American propaganda promoted never materialized. People’s lives got just a little better as a whole in most cases. American capitalism is a cancer just as much as communism is an unattainable utopia. The answer, as in most cases, lies in the middle, but that’s something the American electorate really struggles to grasp.
First of all, I absolutely agree that the Democrats are a right-wing party, and the center-right European Social Democracies generally have higher living standards for most people than in America. However, I believe you have overlooked what I believe are critical factors, and you can correct me if I’m wrong here:
-
The Social Safety Nets in these Social Democracies are shrinking in most cases
-
Most of the Value consumed in these Social Democracies, the grear, vast majority, comes from countries in the Global South paid far less than the Value created for the Global North, meaning they depend on Imperialism
-
Disparity continues to rise as Capitalism continues to centralize into fewer and fewer larger and larger Monopolist syndicates, the trend is still towards instability
The reason they haven’t “turned to Communism” is because they have never wanted to, they have been fundamentaly structured around Capitalism as the dominant Mode of Production and rely on Imperialism to subsidize their cost of living.
The reason America is different is because it is the global Hegemonic power. The “World Police.” Why is it that the US outspends the rest of the world on the military? So it can project soft power all around the world, securing unequal trade deals with the wealthy Capitalist classes in the Global South. The world trades in US dollars, which the US fights to maintain because it profits from that. This internally causes hyper-disparity between the wealthy and the poor in America.
Finally, I want to ask why you say Communism is an “unattainable utopia.” Marxists have thus far been proven correct in their thesis that markets trend towards centralization through competition over time, and that as firms get larger they begin to develop infrastructure for their own internalized planning. The concept of a fully publicly owned, centrally planned economy is built up by Capitalism itself. That’s without speaking to the fact that there are already Socialist states working towards said goal of full public ownership and central planning.
Why do you say the answer is a “middle ground?” What does this look like?
Honestly… I’m not sure at this point. I was somewhat nihilistic before, but these past few years have brought that sentiment to a whole new level for me…
The main limiting factor towards a true communist utopia is one: we’re human. As such, we are unfortunately individualistic by nature, and it’s been proven time and time again that the accumulation of wealth and power only strengthens that sentiment in the vast majority of the population. Under these constraints, I don’t see a path to fully public, decentralized governance and economic equality, someone will always attempt to centralize both.
What can be done is increase regulations, break up monopolies, put on safety guards and ensure better redistribution, and use, of wealth by increasing taxes to the ruling class. So basically yeah, some form of democratic socialism.
But then again, since decisions are made by the ruling class, that is unlikely to happen, it’s not in their best interest.
And as we’ve seen this time around, you just can’t beat stupidity. All the good intentions and overwhelming proof in the world won’t do you any good if people are unwilling to listen. Oftentimes, even the highly educated are unwilling to listen, what chance do you have with the average person?
I’ll address what you said in a moment, but I really do think you should read theory. If nihilism is overtaking you, in my opinion that means you have likely not properly analyzed our conditions, nor how to fix them. I keep an “introduction to Marxist theory” reading list I can link if you want.
First, no Communist is “Utopian.” Utopianism refers to the strategy of trying to figure out the right formula and directly create it, rather than analyzing existing structures and where they are headed. Communists analyze Capitalism and advocate for Socialism because Capitalism creates the conditions for Socicalism naturally, over time, by forming monopolies that can be folded into the public sector and centrally planned.
Secondly, you are making a critical misunderstanding of Communism. Communism is fully publicly owned and centrally planned. This is the entire purpose of public ownership, once you have public ownership you can plan things centrally, along democratic lines.
Thirdly, human values and thinking is guided by their social relations and material conditions. In Capitalism, a highly individualistic system filled with competition, these values are expressed at greater levels among Capital Owners. However, as it centralizes, the working class becomes more associated, and communal values are expressed at greater levels. This process has been reflected throughout all of history, from the tight-knit family structure of Feudalism to the modern era, the Mode of Production has formed the Base of society, and influenced the laws, culture, art, and so forth forming the Superstructure that reinforces the base, in a cycle that continues to evolve over time as one Mode of Production slowly leads to the next.
As per your “Democratic Socialism,” you are describing “Social Democracy.” There is nothing Socialist about what you described, a Capitalist state with large safety nets is Capitalist regardless. As such, you retain the inherent unsustainability of Capitalism and the further rising disparity it contains, until it is eventually overthrown and Socialism is achieved.
Regarding people’s receptions to ideas, this gets back to the Base and Superstructure argument. As the Base shifts over time, people become accepting of new ideas and values. Focusing on literacy and organizing are the best ways to increase social awareness of systemic issues, and figuring out how to solve them.
I maintain that you should read theory. I can offer a reading list, or answer any questions you might have. I don’t think it’s fair for you to denounce Communism as impossible if you haven’t engaged with the literature enough to fully understand what it even is, or how Communists want to achieve it and why they believe it not only to be possible, but necessary.
-
The awful thing is they don’t even see what’s wrong with what you just described.
Extreme left and extreme right are both pieces of shit in my opinion. I’m not a centrist, but I’m not an extremist either. I just want people to not be put in concentration camps because of who they love or what they said online.
I guess it’s just too much to ask for from some people. Well, at least 20 million of them.
How’s that “Schumer Strategy” working out for ya?
The DNC knew it would fail. That was the plan. Perhaps not this spectacularly, but they knew it wouldn’t work. They did their job. They defended the interests of Capital.
Yes, pass the buck to the DNC. They’re the ones that held the gun to your head and forced you not to vote against a fascist dictatorship.
That sarcasm, by the way. I know how thick you people can be, so I thought I’d just point that out.
Yeah, they’re just passing the buck to the people responsible for winning votes who made every decision about how to run the campaign that lost.
That’s sarcasm, by the way. I know how thick you people can be, so I thought I’d just point that out.
We’re adults here. It’s our choice to vote or not. I really dislike the implication that handholding voters to the ballot box is necessary. Yeah, the DNC f’s up plenty, but at the end of the day people that should have voted, didn’t.
And I really dislike the implication that voters should be expected to change to meet the campaigns that politicians want to run as opposed to politicians changing their campaigns based around what the voters want.
The blame should always go upwards, but instead it’s always pointed downward.
people that should have voted, didn’t.
The people who didn’t vote wanted Harris less than they wanted Trump.
They are allowed to have that opinion.
The problem, the worlld is now confirmed as knowing already, is that Americans are, for want of a better word, scum.
It’s almost as though -maybe, just maybe- the people who are registered Republicans like the Republican Party.
For this groundbreaking insight, I’ll take my $20k/month consulting fee from the DNC now.
Happy to say that I was in the 6% and 5%.
Maybe if they got a couple more celebrities to endorse Harris she would have won. Or maybe all the celebrities could have sung Imagine like what they did during COVID.
Maybe they could have been endorsed by colin powell and oliver north.
No, you ignorant fool… they needed more scorned establishment Republican figures to support her. Liz Cheney wasn’t powerful enough, that much is clear now. The absolute genius of having our vehemently pro-choice candidate on stage accepting the endorsement of rabidly anti-abortion figures almost payed off. It’s the voters who were wrong!
I dont get what’s wrong. You guys wanted a genocider, now you get one. I thought that wasn’t that big of a deal?
Yea but they won’t court the “left”(what little of a left exists in America) because the DNC doesn’t want leftist or even center-left policies, they like and want center-right policies that republicans 30 years ago pushed.
Can you send the primary source for those numbers. I was looking for this information weeks ago and couldn’t find it.
All of the Zionists need to be tossed out.
Israel actually doesn’t matter to most Americans, sad as it is.
That’s about to change.
Why? Boots on the ground? What was the attention span for troops in Afghanistan?
The time it was a lot of attention same with the Vietnam war. It will create a left push.
A part of me want the yanks to get their ass kicked by iran like they had their asses kicked by the vietcongs and the talibans.
If the Republicans are going to call the Democrats communists and socialist regardless of how moderate a campaign Democrats run, Democrats might as well lean further left on economic policy. Appealing to the right does nothing because the right can appeal to the right better than the center-left can
None of that will work anymore. The far right owns the house, the senate, the government enforcement agencies, and the Supreme Court. We’re nearing the end of the monopoly game and you don’t get anything extra for landing on free parking. The restraints for any of the rich and powerful just got taken off.
Pretty much this. The Business Plot succeeded, it just took another 100 years. Now they have their Mussolini-like strongman, and a fully captured legislative and judicial system, all without a March on Rome.
What do you think January 6th was?
A beerhall putsch, a failed one, but still, it was a sign of what was yet to come…
Treason?
Well yeah, but it was also a literal march on our Capital.
They didn’t even have to show up to the party or draw a direct line to the cannon fodder
This assumes the dems have any interest in actually improving the lives of Americans.
Jangling keys of “maybe if I get the senate I’ll raise minimum wage? Do you want… Legal weed sometime?” sure works well. Just look at that electoral map!
deleted by creator
Just because they implement good policy from time to time doesn’t mean they give a shit about Americans.
deleted by creator
Congrats on not even attempting to understand the point I’m making.
Which is precisely why they don’t. They don’t exist to threaten the establishment, they are part of it, and are there to provide the illusion of choice so that the public feel like we’re helping while those in power do whatever they need to at our expense to keep that power. Playing by the rules and within the systems they have set out for us can and will only ever maintain the status quo.
This makes sense if one has never been in any sort of leadership role or public-facing organization before.
It’s true in very narrow senses which are stretched to breaking because really it isn’t true.
Joe Biden suddenly turns into Joe Stalin…
Yup. Democratic leadership would rather trump win than run a left-facing campaign and candidate. What’s the definition of insanity?
Democratic leadership has to call corporate donors before they can make any decisions
deleted by creator
100%
Here in deep-red Missouri the $15 minimum wage passed in a landslide, but for some reason, all Democrats wanted to talk about was tax cuts that no one thinks they’ll actually pass anyway.
Democratic consultants. The problem.
The Democratic Party is basically dead now. Time to sit back and watch the MAGAs eat themselves. Clock ticking.
Magas will eat a lot of good people first, unfortunately. And the show will be extended over many years. Another enemy or bad group will always be found.
The “and then they came for” moment won’t hit critical mass for aomg time if ever. It’s terrifying to think how long an authoritarian group could maintain power with the technology and military power available today.
The Democratic Party is basically dead now. Time to sit back and watch the MAGAs eat themselves. Clock ticking.
Well that’s one way to look at this positively.
How do you see this going down? Internal power struggles and tantrum hissy fits?
deleted by creator
Democratic Party : Republican Party :: Washington Generals : Harlem Globetrotters
deleted by creator
Democratic leadership is those of us who do the thankless work of playing politics to help others.
Find something different. You won’t. Sure Progressive Party Whatever - they’ll run into the exact same thing. You’re re-inventing the wheel because you don’t know that.
That’s…
I’m not sure we’re all talking about the same thing. The Democratic Party has been playing to the “center” longer than any of us have been alive, while shunning, excommunicating, and often literally arresting anyone to the left. And all that accomplishes and has ever accomplished is the Overton window shifting further and further right. Kamala was running on bragging about hiring “the good” republicans while sidestepping the massive issues anyone even slightly progressive wanted to talk about (and what almost surely turned off a huge portion of voters), which is the ongoing genocide in Gaza. She finally said the day before the election that she would do “everything in her power to end the war,” which is still not nearly enough when discussing a fuckin genocide.
So many of the people I know are leftists. None of them voted for her because of it. Sure, the democrats and liberals I know did—my parents, for example. But they have voted democrat the entire time I’ve been alive. They are solid, reliable Dem voters. They’re not the people she needed to appeal to either—but keeping them was certainly more important than any mythical “centrist/swing” voter.
Everyone that was arrested for sitting in school buildings protesting the genocide, everyone who is sickened by what we’re seeing. Who couldn’t stomach voting for someone who didn’t feel the need to say it was a genocide that sickens them. THOSE are the people the dems gain when, like in 2020, things are so bad they hold their noses and increase turnout, and they’re the votes they lose when they hold office and maintain the genocidal status quo.
deleted by creator
Yeah, that’s definitely not what that meant.
Yeah no. I hate the democrats, I’m a registered libertarian. The popular vote said they’re fine with project 2025.
I don’t really care what issues anyone had. It was exesetential. We failed. That’s not a party issue, it’s an American issue. I don’t care about turnout, if you didn’t turn out you don’t care. Thats not on the party that’s on you. I don’t care about policy, it’s all about to get worse, we’ve seen it. Parties cease to matter when there’s dead bodies in the halls of government. We all saw the worst fucking coup attempt in history… And it worked. There is no party to blame for that. 2016 came down to poor leadership, this is just… deserved.
We’ll see what’s left to re-build with.
It is a party issue. The reason Democrats couldn’t effectively run on the issue of democracy is that they THEMSELVES did not treat Trump as a threat to democracy. Actions speak louder than words. Democrats called Trump a fascist and a threat to democracy. But they didn’t even start an investigation of him til two years into the Biden term. That man should have been arrested day one, hauled in front of a military tribunal, charged with treason, and dealt with accordingly. Any SCOTUS justices that tried to prevent this should have been charged as accessories after the fact and similarly tried as enemies of the republic.
THAT is the rational response to a former president that tried to overthrow the government. Trump should have been six feet under before Biden finished his first 100 days. That is the kind of urgency that is needed when a true existential threat is present. Look what happens when a random citizen tries to walk into the White House carrying a rifle. Do you think they weigh the political calculus of dealing with the person and how to respond to them without angering voters? No, they do what is necessary, then and there. That is what you do in an emergency.
What kind of existential threat do you just ignore for two years and then slow-walk? If China were invading Hawaii, would we move with that kind of sloth? No, an existential threat requires immediate action. By giving so much deference to Trump, Biden made extremely clear that he didn’t believe Trump to be an existential threat to democracy. Entirely because of his actions, any later campaign pleas about the threat of Trump fell of deaf ears. If the president of the United States won’t take something seriously as a threat to democracy, why would anyone expect voters to?
I don’t disagree they did a bad job. Clearly. Again, I don’t even like them in the first place for similar reasons. What I’m saying is there was exactly one way to avoid all of this this week, and we all signed off on it. The democrats didn’t make anyone stay home. The democrats didn’t make anyone vote for Trump. Individuals can’t take the action you described above, but they had an option to stop it from getting worse, and chose not to.
If you think the party is busted fine, I freaking agree. It’s not picking evil from the lesser of the two, it’s picking who you want to fight.
Again I’ll say, the dems didn’t do this, we all did. The dysfunction of a party doesn’t excuse individuals had a choice, and chose this.
