That’s just them saying that the count is off. Theyre not calling anyone not trans. If I did a survey and the results were faulty about the amount of Black people, would it be racist to say the numbers seem off? About 0.5-1.6% of people in the US identify as trans. It would be quite a feat if half of their users were trans, when the unifying ideology is communism. Of course there are more trans people with leftist views, but what percentage of leftists are trans? We don’t have that number, but the chances of it equaling out to half of any user base that isn’t specifically trans-oriented are slim.
If they were to say “50% Of our user base has blue eyes,” it wouldn’t be hateful of blue eyed people to say that number is incorrect. It’s not about he identity of the unifying quality, it’s literally just about the claim that the number is way higher than it realistically is. You’re equating the hateful desire to erase trans people with simply saying “I don’t think the numbers can be that high.” Because it’s a touchy subject. But calling into question the probability isn’t hateful. Just math.
f I did a survey and the results were faulty about the amount of Black people, would it be racist to say the numbers seem off?
If you had no material reason to doubt those numbers and it was a community that was built by and for black people and you had a motivation to be blind to their minority status then… yea, it would be racist to say “I don’t believe it”
People who frequent MoG don’t want to acknowledge the trans and minority makeup of hexbear because that conflicts with their self-image of being trans allies… It has nothing to do with any factual basis of doubt of that demographic.
If you had no material reason to doubt those numbers
they do, though: transfolk represent a exceptionally small but real segment of the population; the idea that all of them found the same lemmy instance and joined it exclusively vs. allies and other users is pretty improbable.
this isn’t anyone questioning their honesty, simply remarking that the odds of it being that way are infinitesimal.
There is a reason: it’s that those numbers are highly improbable. That’s a very good reason to say “I don’t think you can back up your claim.” The burden of proof isn’t on the person saying they don’t think the number is realistic, it’s on the person who pulled a percentage out of their ass lol
That’s my first and overarching point. My secondary point is that this is a falsely touchy topic. It’s not actually touchy, but because a particular embattled group is the subject being counted, it suddenly becomes perceived as caustic. Exactly as we’re seeing with you, right now. You’re perceiving a greater injustice than what the actual situation is exhibiting.
No one is calling into question the existence and plight of trans people. It’s just that you can’t pull a number out of your ass. Just because the number is counting an oppressed minority, suddenly people will falsely jump to say, “HEY!” Even though it’s not warranted. If the number we’re counting anything else, they wouldn’t be coming for the existence X, Y, or Z. If the person said “I have 2,000 carrots at my house” and another said, “that’s highly unlikely,” that person wouldn’t have anything against carrots. See what I’m saying,
There is no one coming after trans people. This person is coming at another person for making up a number. Simple as.
Third, actually, the original person is standing up for trans people because the hexbear user is throwing trans people in front of the actual subject of the attack: hexbear users. So you’re def angry at the wrong person.
The burden of proof isn’t on the person saying they don’t think the number is realistic, it’s on the person who pulled a percentage out of their ass lol
“I don’t believe you’re trans, because trans people are exceedingly rare, and the burden of proof is on you for having pulled your self-identity out of your ass lmao”
It’s incredibly transphobic to assume those who self-report to be in a targeted minority are lying for some rhetorical benefit. Nobody wants to be subject to the harassment that comes with being gender non-binary, not even to score some hypothetical internet points.
It’s a ridiculous argument. Throwing “transphobe” onto things that just happen to pertain to transgendered people, regardless of what’s actually being discussed, hurts the community way more than saying a claimed percentage is probably inaccurate.
Way more.
This is the Israeli defense: anything that they don’t want to hear, they call antisemitic. Because it’s easier than having an argument and immediately puts the accused on their back foot.
But, and I’m sure you’ll agree with me here, that tactic ends up hurting Semitic people way more than whatever was being dismissed by Israel. That attitude is far more harmful to the conversation than engaging with the factual basis of the conversation.
Does changing the framing in that way help you see what I’m saying?
Fuck transphobia. I want the trans community to flourish and to be happy and free. But throwing the entire community in front of yourself in a personal argument in order to use “you’re transphobic” as a cudgel in a convo that otherwise isn’t about the actual trans community hurts the whole community way, way more. Because idiots will use that kind of shit as an excuse to hate the whole community—it’s basically asking for generalizing because you introduced the concept into the conversation. Just like idiots on the left have taken to antisemitism in a misconceived attempt at defending the Palestinian people, idiots will absolutely pick up the ball of likening an individual to the whole trans community.
I’m not your enemy here. I’m arguing for the trans community. We are having a difference of understanding but we both think we’re arguing for the same side. See what I’m trying to say?
Interestingly enough, I think a better example is Jewish people being accused of being fake/bad jews for being insufficiently supportive of the Israeli state, since the reason why people here, specifically doubt the trans makeup of hexbear is their insufficient support to western democracy. People find it uncomfortable to consider a trans individual might grand critical support to a state who has had reactionary trans-exclusionary policy, and so they cast doubt on the legitimacy of that membership.
Having a disagreement with a hexbear about politics is one thing, but projecting that disagreement onto their personal identity is explicitly bigoted. There isn’t any reason to doubt the trans demographic makeup of a community that was explicitly created as a trans-inclusionary leftist community.
That’s just them saying that the count is off. Theyre not calling anyone not trans. If I did a survey and the results were faulty about the amount of Black people, would it be racist to say the numbers seem off? About 0.5-1.6% of people in the US identify as trans. It would be quite a feat if half of their users were trans, when the unifying ideology is communism. Of course there are more trans people with leftist views, but what percentage of leftists are trans? We don’t have that number, but the chances of it equaling out to half of any user base that isn’t specifically trans-oriented are slim.
If they were to say “50% Of our user base has blue eyes,” it wouldn’t be hateful of blue eyed people to say that number is incorrect. It’s not about he identity of the unifying quality, it’s literally just about the claim that the number is way higher than it realistically is. You’re equating the hateful desire to erase trans people with simply saying “I don’t think the numbers can be that high.” Because it’s a touchy subject. But calling into question the probability isn’t hateful. Just math.
If you had no material reason to doubt those numbers and it was a community that was built by and for black people and you had a motivation to be blind to their minority status then… yea, it would be racist to say “I don’t believe it”
People who frequent MoG don’t want to acknowledge the trans and minority makeup of hexbear because that conflicts with their self-image of being trans allies… It has nothing to do with any factual basis of doubt of that demographic.
they do, though: transfolk represent a exceptionally small but real segment of the population; the idea that all of them found the same lemmy instance and joined it exclusively vs. allies and other users is pretty improbable.
this isn’t anyone questioning their honesty, simply remarking that the odds of it being that way are infinitesimal.
There is a reason: it’s that those numbers are highly improbable. That’s a very good reason to say “I don’t think you can back up your claim.” The burden of proof isn’t on the person saying they don’t think the number is realistic, it’s on the person who pulled a percentage out of their ass lol
That’s my first and overarching point. My secondary point is that this is a falsely touchy topic. It’s not actually touchy, but because a particular embattled group is the subject being counted, it suddenly becomes perceived as caustic. Exactly as we’re seeing with you, right now. You’re perceiving a greater injustice than what the actual situation is exhibiting.
No one is calling into question the existence and plight of trans people. It’s just that you can’t pull a number out of your ass. Just because the number is counting an oppressed minority, suddenly people will falsely jump to say, “HEY!” Even though it’s not warranted. If the number we’re counting anything else, they wouldn’t be coming for the existence X, Y, or Z. If the person said “I have 2,000 carrots at my house” and another said, “that’s highly unlikely,” that person wouldn’t have anything against carrots. See what I’m saying,
There is no one coming after trans people. This person is coming at another person for making up a number. Simple as.
Third, actually, the original person is standing up for trans people because the hexbear user is throwing trans people in front of the actual subject of the attack: hexbear users. So you’re def angry at the wrong person.
“I don’t believe you’re trans, because trans people are exceedingly rare, and the burden of proof is on you for having pulled your self-identity out of your ass lmao”
It’s incredibly transphobic to assume those who self-report to be in a targeted minority are lying for some rhetorical benefit. Nobody wants to be subject to the harassment that comes with being gender non-binary, not even to score some hypothetical internet points.
That’s wholly mischaracterizing the discussion.
“Half is X.”
Based on what?
“How dare you be so hateful!”
It’s a ridiculous argument. Throwing “transphobe” onto things that just happen to pertain to transgendered people, regardless of what’s actually being discussed, hurts the community way more than saying a claimed percentage is probably inaccurate. Way more.
This is the Israeli defense: anything that they don’t want to hear, they call antisemitic. Because it’s easier than having an argument and immediately puts the accused on their back foot.
But, and I’m sure you’ll agree with me here, that tactic ends up hurting Semitic people way more than whatever was being dismissed by Israel. That attitude is far more harmful to the conversation than engaging with the factual basis of the conversation.
Does changing the framing in that way help you see what I’m saying?
Fuck transphobia. I want the trans community to flourish and to be happy and free. But throwing the entire community in front of yourself in a personal argument in order to use “you’re transphobic” as a cudgel in a convo that otherwise isn’t about the actual trans community hurts the whole community way, way more. Because idiots will use that kind of shit as an excuse to hate the whole community—it’s basically asking for generalizing because you introduced the concept into the conversation. Just like idiots on the left have taken to antisemitism in a misconceived attempt at defending the Palestinian people, idiots will absolutely pick up the ball of likening an individual to the whole trans community.
I’m not your enemy here. I’m arguing for the trans community. We are having a difference of understanding but we both think we’re arguing for the same side. See what I’m trying to say?
Interestingly enough, I think a better example is Jewish people being accused of being fake/bad jews for being insufficiently supportive of the Israeli state, since the reason why people here, specifically doubt the trans makeup of hexbear is their insufficient support to western democracy. People find it uncomfortable to consider a trans individual might grand critical support to a state who has had reactionary trans-exclusionary policy, and so they cast doubt on the legitimacy of that membership.
Having a disagreement with a hexbear about politics is one thing, but projecting that disagreement onto their personal identity is explicitly bigoted. There isn’t any reason to doubt the trans demographic makeup of a community that was explicitly created as a trans-inclusionary leftist community.