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Joined 11 months ago
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Cake day: August 8th, 2023

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  • TL;DR;

    The rules might be considered a list of “immoral things” but in my experience it was treated more as a list of “distracting things”, YMMV.


    Then why is it on the list of horrible things?

    You mean the list specifically titled “precepts” ?

    It does indicate that it’s a list based on what is considered “moral conduct” so i suppose it could be considered a list of “Immoral” things.

    I personally read it as “Rules and Guidelines to prevent distraction during the process”.

    While i don’t personally prescribe to that kind of moral absolutism i was willing to adhere to the guidelines for a short period to experience the process in it’s intended form.

    Attendance isn’t mandatory so people will have to make that call for themselves if they are considering going.

    The list doesn’t mention communication, and in fact specifically prohibits lying. That suggests that speacking truly is permitted,

    The section titled “Noble Silence” 4 paragraphs down, specifically goes in to the details of the non-communication i was referencing.

    and this is a list of bad things

    Not sure what you mean here, but hopefully i’ve covered it above.

    That’s a list someone makes when they don’t approve of sex (or intoxicants, but that’s another conversation).

    Very possibly and i’d guess it comes from the Buddhist origins.

    I will state that my experience is that it wasn’t preachy at all, the video recordings do reference some Buddhist stories/teachings but only really to use them as examples for teaching the meditation process.

    Given that you aren’t supposed to be communicating in general there is very little leeway in which preaching could occur.


  • It’s not considered bad , but it is a distraction, there’s supposed to be no communication between attendees.

    It’s supposed to be full introspection, afaict.

    Don’t know if its the same in all places but men and women were completely separate in the one I went to.

    Even if you went with your wife you’d not really be there with her, you’d be two people in the same place at the same time, not communicating.

    It’s not really a relaxing holiday kind of place.


  • I genuinely have no idea if it’s an option for you or if it’d even help but for 10/11 days of relative isolation you could try vipassana

    Not sure what the northern US wait times are like, but you generally need to book ahead.

    It’s free, it works on a volunteer basis, no idea how if it works for people with no fixed abode but proof of residence was not required where i am.

    Do check if it’s suitable for you though, there are rules (albeit not many), they seem reasonable to me but might not be for you.

    Isolation wise, there is no communication between attendees, but there are group meditation sessions (though they are also non-talking).

    The three aspects that weren’t silent :

    • the meditation instruction, it was a one hour-ish video playback per day explaining the process.
    • the final day, discussion is allowed.
    • optional question time with an instructor.









  • I know of it but I’ve not put any effort in to specific practice.

    My personal opinion is that most communication between anyone contains manipulation, even if they aren’t doing it consciously, it’s an intrinsic part of how we deal with each other.

    The difference is that i don’t have much of a natural instinct for it, i have to practice and be much more intentional, which brings benefits and drawbacks.

    I find that a lot of people in general can be manipulated in similar ways (I’m no exception to this) but techniques vary by culture, upbringing, experience, context etc, i don’t like to do it , however, for the reason stated a bit further down.

    Identifying which markers work for which people is a a lot of the battle initially.

    Unfair is relative and heavily context dependent but in some circumstances yeah it can feel a bit like a cheat, what I’ve found over time is that I’d be cheating myself just as much as anyone else, my goal in general was/is better communication and understanding, if I’m intentionally manipulating outside the norms then the interaction is tainted in terms of learning natural communications patterns.

    If they are intentionally manipulating outside of the norms then that’s significantly more interesting and useful for gaining samples from uncommon behaviours.


  • Lots of practice.

    For me it works like an elaborate pattern recognition tree.

    e.g. This face in this context means x thing 75% of the time so far.

    Then it’s “strong opinions held weakly”, you now have a working hypothesis but it’s just that, a hypothesis.

    Every facial/body/word/etc change could be a modifier to the previous assumption. You could also match some newly remembered memory to the situation that also changes the impression of what is going on.

    It’s exhausting, but it becomes easier with practice.

    It’s gets more refined the more you are around the same people, as you get a ‘feel’ for their patterns.

    You also start to build up a library of ‘shortcuts’ that you can sometimes apply to unfamiliar situations/people.

    At some point it starts to become ‘muscle memory’ and the energy required to do it is greatly reduced.

    YMMV however, I’ve no idea if this will work for anyone else in the way I have described.

    I’d also say to remember that everyone is guessing to some degree or another it’s just that your guesses might require a bit more intention, whichever method (s) you settle on.

    You do what you can with what you have, that is the best that can be reasonably expected of anyone.







  • I mean, yes? That’s a good summation.

    The part where you get to call something “open source” by OSI standards (which I’m pretty sure is the accepted standard set) but only if you adhere to those standards.

    Don’t want to adhere, no problem, but nobody who does accept that standard will agree with you if you try and assign that label to something that doesn’t adhere, because that’s how commonly accepted standards work, socially.

    Want to make an “open source 2 : electric boogaloo” licence , still no problem.

    Want to try and get the existing open source standards changed, still good, difficult, but doable.

    Relevant to this discussion, trying to convince people that someone claiming something doesn’t adhere to the current, socially accepted open source standards, when anybody can go look those standards up and check, is the longest of shots.

    To address the bible example, plenty of variations exist, with smaller or larger deviations from each other, and they each have their own set of believers, some are even compatible with each other.

    Much like the “true” 1 open source licences and the other, “closely related, but not quite legit” 2 variations.

    1 As defined by the existing, community accepted standards set forth by the OSI

    2 Any other set of standards that isn’t compatible with 1

    edit: clarified that last sentence, it was borderline unparseable


  • “It’s not libre / free as in freedom so it’s wrong”.

    I think it’s more “It’s not libre / free as in freedom so it’s not open source, don’t pretend it is”.

    The “wrong” part would be derived from claiming its something that it isn’t to gain some advantage. I’m this case community contributions.

    There’s not a handwaving distinction between open source and not, there are pretty clear guidelines.