• MindTraveller@lemmy.ca
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    17 days ago

    Okay, so the conservative who looks at your friend and sees a woman - is that conservative hallucinating? You said the only way to change perceived reality is physically or a hallucination. So the difference between your perceptions, are you saying it’s mental illness?

    • Allero@lemmy.today
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      17 days ago

      First, that wasn’t me.

      Second, conservative doesn’t change the reality of nonbinary people’s existence, he’s just ignorant about it. The objective reality of their existence still stands.

      Ignorance, among other things, produces body of knowledge that does not reflect reality.

      • MindTraveller@lemmy.ca
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        16 days ago

        What’s the “objective reality” of this picture? Is it a rabbit or a duck?

        You said everything has an objective reality, and refused to entertain the fact that gender presentation is a social construct, so I expect you to be consistent.

        • Allero@lemmy.today
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          16 days ago

          The objective reality is, it is a picture that can be perceived by humans as a picture of rabbit or duck depending on the angle. A copy of a printed paper, a set of black and white pixels.

          As I said in another thread talking to you, there is an objective reality that some people see themselves as nonbinary, and that’s a fact. In a similar way, there are people who consider themselves “male, female, cis-, trans-”. And this is reality too. The way you approach it further is a field of social constructs.

          • MindTraveller@lemmy.ca
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            16 days ago

            What makes it so the picture has no reality as a rabbit or a duck, but a human being has an objective gender?

            • Allero@lemmy.today
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              16 days ago

              The fact that gender is self-assessed and self-determined. We can’t ask a picture on whether it’s a rabbit or a duck being depicted, and its author deliberately made it look like both. Also, the objective reality is that it’s just a picture - you are not confronted with a rabbi-duck coming at you.

              We can always ask a person, though, and they do have a certain opinion in what their gender is - an opinion that is essentially a sole basis for gendering someone. So their opinion of their gender essentially defines their gender, which makes it a reality.

              • MindTraveller@lemmy.ca
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                16 days ago

                I dunno, sounds like you just reinvented social constructs and then pretended they were objective reality.

                Also if opinion is the sole determinant, are you saying I was objectively a boy back before my egg cracked? Like that I was a boy and it was objective reality? Ewwwwww!!!

                • Allero@lemmy.today
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                  16 days ago

                  Gender itself is entirely a social construct. The reality, however, is that this construct exists in our interactions, and that we are unable to define it based on anything but self-assessment.

                  Still, if we switch back to the scope of the objective reality about humans themselves, gender is entirely social.

                  Objective reality operates the category of sex and couldn’t care less about whatever we created around it - including gender and gender roles.