Unfortunately our democracy uses a first-past-the-post voting system which trends toward a two-party system. This makes the Republicans and Democrats the only game in town.
We need to leverage power to reduce the harm done to the minority groups fascists in the Republican party want to hurt. So rather than attempting to achieve a moral victory over Democrats, people on the left should do the most useful thing they can during elections for minorities and vote for Democrats.
any chance you are one of the bright consultants who get paid millions by dnc to come up with the brilliant strategies to be so dogsit that they loose to orange buffoon ?
death camp ?
you should have said you were in gaza or westbank, my bad. yeah being rich there aint gonna help. if you were here in us, you would atleast be able to work 16 hours to be one paycheque away from homelessness.
thoughts and prayers. best we can do as we don’t care about poor brown people irrespective of gender, age or still in womb.
Or you are the wealthy but new hotness in oppressed to the DNC to hook into to prove they care about something while it only amounts to culture identiry. But it allows them to take in heavy donations to further enrich themselves by pretending to fix things.
It’s clear that the trans community is still far to small a percentage of the populace to focus on as the main backing and asking other people to care about you and members of your community above their own well-being will not work because people are as selfish as everyone else.
I’m sorry but I really don’t care what happens within 2% of the population as long as they aren’t being killed compared to workers who make up the most of us.
So you won’t see me as a leftist using Trans as any kind of grandstanding cause I really don’t care or think you matter other than a funding source for pretend caring wealthy.
Or you are the wealthy but new hotness in oppressed to the DNC to hook into
? edit: I mean, I gave 70 dollars to Harris’ campaign this year. I spent more on the Eldrazi Incursion commander deck at my LGS which was like 90 dollars. But I gave about $300 to Warren and $300 to Bernie in 2020 and none to Biden.
above their own well-being will not work because people are as selfish as everyone else.
People are self-interested in that they care about themselves and the people in their immediate social spheres. However it is in the interests of people to vote for Democrats and against fascists.
I’m sorry but I really don’t care what happens within 2% of the population as long as they aren’t being killed
Well it’s good of you to be honest, but fascists do want to kill us. Trans people and lots of other people are going to die as a result of fascist policies.
So you won’t see me as a leftist using Trans as any kind of grandstanding cause I really don’t care or think you matter other than a funding source for pretend caring wealthy.
At least you’re honest about using trans people in pursuit of your moral victory over the Democrats.
You admit you have spare money to spend and use as donations to politics. Which is my point as most members of the Trans community does when they consider gender identity to be their biggest issue to deal with.
It’s not true for all trans people but the ones I hear from tend to have cash and I have known plenty of the LGBTQ community to be the most conservative because of their wealth. So are they willing to use themselves in their pursuit of moral victory?
It’s an identity. I literally said I don’t care and then you went and repeated your line about how you are more important. As if people are using you or spending you like currency for the election. It wasn’t about you.
Lots of people will die. Yeah start being part of the larger topic then and get your head out of your own fart box. Most of them won’t be upper class American trans people. And it certainly wasn’t about morals it’s about other people struggling that you demand agree with you in votes because you get better treatment under one party.
Maybe get with the people who care about not dying and show you do as well. As if saying, ask the DNC party to care about more than the trans community and specific shades of minority to get behind large populace movements for support is some kind of deep moral victory at your expense. Boo. Bad take.
You admit you have spare money to spend and use as donations to politics.
Yeah, I had a job and disposable income before the company I worked for went out of business because of Trump’s covid policies.
Me spending that $70 dollars isn’t the win for your argument you think it is. Harris got to a billion dollars because millions of people donated to her campaign. People solved a collective problem by working together collectively, not by being rich.
Which is my point as most members of the Trans community does when they consider gender identity to be their biggest issue to deal with.
For me it was stopping fascism. $70 seemed like a small price to pay to stop fascism for four more years. I care about trans people but the Harris campaign barely talked about trans issues so that wasn’t really a motivating factor. If they had talked about trans issues favorably I might have donated more. I gave $10 when Harris announced her run, I gave $20 when she picked Walz, I gave $20 when Harris debated Trump, and gave $20 when Walz debated Vance.
It’s not true for all trans people but the ones I hear from tend to have cash and I have known plenty of the LGBTQ community to be the most conservative because of their wealth.
I made $100k working at my job for a little over two years plus over $30k in my 401k after gas, tax, and rent. I’m not rich by any metric. Do you prefer if I can’t afford to communicate over the internet so you won’t be inconvenienced by my voice? You argument conveniently ignores I donated to Warren and Bernie. Are they not morally pure enough for you?
So are they willing to use themselves in their pursuit of moral victory?
I don’t want a moral victory. You clearly do. Don’t quit on the honesty while you were ahead.
It’s an identity. I literally said I don’t care and then you went and repeated your line about how you are more important. As if people are using you or spending you like currency for the election. It wasn’t about you.
People are more important than your moral victory.
Yeah start being part of the larger topic then and get your head out of your own fart box.
Please do that for everyone’s sake. Thanks.
As if saying, ask the DNC party to care about more than the trans community and specific shades of minority to get behind large populace movements for support is some kind of deep moral victory at your expense.
Refusing to vote for the Democrats until they are perfect on every issue is the pursuit of moral victory. It makes minorities the cost of doing business and isn’t a useful strategy for helping anyone. We didn’t get the right to marry who we want because people refused to vote for Democrats. Minorities strategically voted for Democrats for decades to get them and the US Overton window to shift to the left on that issue.
Unfortunately our democracy uses a first-past-the-post voting system which trends toward a two-party system
Why must one of those parties be the Democrats? I don’t see no fucking Whigs around, do you?
We need to leverage power to reduce the harm done to the minority groups fascists in the Republican party want to hurt
Democrats won’t reduce any harm. They’ll just send out fundraising emails, like they did when Roe was overturned. During this last cycle, they threw the undocumented under the bus and Democratic candidates were parroting Republican “boys in girls’ sports” hatred.
Why must one of those parties be the Democrats? I don’t see no fucking Whigs around, do you?
Because unlike the Wigs, the Democrats are not divided over slavery. They can just move to the right on contemporary issues as Chris Murphy details here. edit: typo
Democrats won’t reduce any harm.
Hi, I’m a trans person. I’m not the most at risk trans person since I’m pre-transition, but it’s definitely a case of they would if they could. I would not like to be murdered in a death camp please. Like if Democrats can’t get trans messaging right, because they suck at winning, fine. At least they aren’t trying to completely ostracize me from society and make me dig my own grave. I hope that gives a different perspective on this.
Hi, I’m a trans person. I’m not the most at risk trans person since I’m pre-transition, but it’s definitely a case of they would if they could. I would not like to be murdered in a death camp please. Like if Democrats can’t get trans messaging right, because they suck at winning, fine. At least they aren’t trying to completely ostracize me from society and make me dig my own grave.
Democrats have no concept of solidarity. None. They just haven’t thrown you under the bus yet, but they’ve let you know that they will. Their candidates have been using the Republican “boys in girls’ sports” hatred in their campaign ads.
The undocumented? Under the bus. Muslims? Under the bus. Rail workers? Under the bus. If you expect solidarity from Democrats, prepare to tuck and roll.
Two Democratic politicians already threw trans people under the bus, saying the party is too left on trans-issues, and then parroting the “people don’t want biological boys in girl’s sports” bullshit.
And then that one Dem who ran the campaign ad “I’ve never pushed for sex changes,” or something like that.
I’m trans too, and honestly, I will never be supporting the DNC again after hearing that from two of their congressional members.
Democrats have only recently been openly favorable to gay people within the last decade. Minorities have been using the Democrats to shift things to the left in this country for decades before that.
They just haven’t thrown you under the bus yet, but they’ve let you know that they will. Their candidates have been using the Republican “boys in girls’ sports” hatred in their campaign ads.
I’m aware of the messaging. That’s still not the same as a ban on gender affirming care, removal of employment protections, and the rounding up of homeless people.
Rail workers
Biden actually helped rail workers. He should have stuck with them from the start and done more, but it’s better than nothing.
The people who I would have expected solidarity from is the left. But instead I am constantly confronted by people who want moral victory over the Democrats. In this arrangement, I am the ball. Instead of kicking me, how about we leverage power to help people.
Vote for Democrats in elections not because they will fix our problems, stand with us, or even do what we want, but because it is how we demonstrate power to the fascists. It’s how we protect the people that Republicans want to harm and kill. It’s how we buy time to get a populist movement to co-opt the Democratic Party.
Biden taking credit for the work of rail workers whose right to strike he opposed is rich.
The people who I would have expected solidarity from is the left.
You want solidarity in one direction only. You want the left to worship the Democrats no matter who they throw under the bus.
But instead I am constantly confronted by people who want moral victory over the Democrats
You already got your actual victory over the left. You just want critics to shut up about it.
In this arrangement, I am the ball. Instead of kicking me, how about we leverage power to help people.
What power? The left, in your estimation, has only the power to lovingly smooch the ass of the center as they move to the right and ONLY the right.
Vote for Democrats in elections not because they will fix our problems, stand with us, or even do what we want, but because it is how we demonstrate power to the fascists.
THEY. SUPPORTED. GENOCIDE. I get that that’s a selling point for you, but some of us see that as already fascist-adjacent. And moving right from that just gets you fascism.
Biden taking credit for the work of rail workers whose right to strike he opposed is rich.
But like he did help them though.
You want solidarity in one direction only. You want the left to worship the Democrats no matter who they throw under the bus.
No, I want people to actually care about minorities instead of virtue signaling. I’m not interested in being currency in your game of moral purity with the Democrats.
You already got your actual victory over the left. You just want critics to shut up about it.
You got your victory over the Democrats at the expense of minorities, but you want 2026 and 2028 too. Well, Republicans might not even give us those elections or an opposition party at all now, we’ll find out.
What power? The left, in your estimation, has only the power to lovingly smooch the ass of the center as they move to the right and ONLY the right.
We have the power to stop fascists from taking power, killing people, and destroying the environment. We can even educate people and co-opt the Democratic Party. I recommend you read what I wrote.
THEY. SUPPORTED. GENOCIDE.
Biden supported genocide. Members of his own administration pushed back against him in open letters. You don’t care about the Palestinians. Genocide is a word you can type in all caps that you think will win you arguments on the internet. It holds no material implications with you whatsoever or you would be railing against Trump’s promise of indefinite genocide.
As someone closer to the chopping block than I would like, I am no longer phased by that bullshit. I’ve got the right screaming at me that they want me dead, and I’ve got people like you on the left screaming at me to be silent as they drag me the rest of the way there. The Palestinians are worse off now because of people like you and your virtue signaling and so is everyone else.
Your vote is appreciated. Your rhetoric is not. We don’t live in a moral universe. This universe is physics based. You acting in a way that is consistent with your subjective moral values isn’t going to help anyone. In fact, it’s going to let Republicans and other fascists all over the world run right over the people you claim to care about. Learn to analyze strategies based on their utility. edit: typo
The Democrats are the tool we have at our disposal. I intended to use that tool for as much as it can be used for. Help me.
But like maybe you should have read the article you posted. Then again, since you think that “we totally want to” is a policy, “we’re taking credit” is the same as an accomplishment.
I’m not interested in being currency in your game of moral purity with the Democrats.
You’re just interested in anyone who is even remotely dissatisfied with Democrats shutting up or being shut up, regardless of what Democrats do.
You got your victory over the Democrats at the expense of minorities, but you want 2026 and 2028 too.
Dude, I fucking tried to warn about what was going to happen and I wasn’t the only one. At least here on lemmy, it meant being called a trumper and a Russian every last time. But yeah, the party moved to the right and alienated the base and exactly what I was called a Russian for saying happened. Democrats stayed home. Your faith in the willingness of the Democratic Party to change for the better is misplaced. If they continue on their current course, they will lose 2026 and 2028. And despite your constant pollyanna insistence that if we just care bear stare at them they’ll change, I have no remaining faith in the party. Not after this election.
Biden supported genocide.
As did Harris, vague meaningless non-policy promises notwithstanding.
Members of his own administration pushed back against him in open letters.
Ooh. Were they strongly worded?
It holds no material implications with you whatsoever or you would be railing against Trump’s promise of indefinite genocide.
This thread is about Democrats. Of course Trump is worse. That doesn’t excuse selling weapons for an ongoing genocide.
As someone closer to the chopping block than I would like, I am no longer phased by that bullshit. I’ve got the right screaming at me that they want me dead, and I’ve got people like you on the left screaming at me to be silent as they drag me the rest of the way there.
I’m telling you not to be a damned fool. The party will sell you out. It’s what they do. It’s a pattern of behavior that you’ve been making excuses for.
Your vote is appreciated. Your rhetoric is not.
Who is screaming at whom to be silent?
The Democrats are the tool we have at our disposal. I intended to use that tool for as much as it can be used for. Help me.
But like maybe you should have read the article you posted.
I did. Biden should have done more. But he didn’t do nothing.
You’re just interested in anyone who is even remotely dissatisfied with Democrats shutting up or being shut up, regardless of what Democrats do.
I want people to be vocal. You’re doing that. I disagree with what is being said.
Dude, I fucking tried to warn about what was going to happen and I wasn’t the only one. At least here on lemmy, it meant being called a trumper and a Russian every last time.
And I tried to warn you people. You played right into the hands of MAGA and the Kremlin. We knew who Harris and the Democrats were. The goal was to prevent fascism anyway. There was no other viable strategy, but people still tried to sink Harris’ campaign anyway.
I have no remaining faith in the party. Not after this election.
The Democratic Party is a tool, not a friend you need to have faith in.
As did Harris, vague meaningless non-policy promises notwithstanding.
I showed receipts. Reiterate the same lie as many times as you want. It will still be a lie.
Ooh. Were they strongly worded?
What matter’s is that it was Biden’s decision. People in his administration disagreed with him.
This thread is about Democrats. Of course Trump is worse. That doesn’t excuse selling weapons for an ongoing genocide.
No, I mean you wouldn’t still be in this thread shitting on Democrats if you cared. You would want to spend your time going after Trump, since he’s going to president, but that’s not where you are directing your energy.
I’m telling you not to be a damned fool. The party will sell you out. It’s what they do. It’s a pattern of behavior that you’ve been making excuses for.
That’s what I’m telling you. We need to co-opt the Democrats. I’m not making excuses for their behavior, I’m arguing for a strategy to advance our goals. Voting for Democrats until the party is co-opted by a progressive and socialist populist movement buys us time to make that happen. If you read my comments you would know my argument’s position by now.
Who is screaming at whom to be silent?
You at me. Be vocal. But do it in a way that is useful.
They’re using you. Not the other way around.
People are definitely using you. They got you arguing against your own interests and you don’t even know. Or maybe you don’t care. That moral victory is too important to you. edit: typo
A big issue with this approach: The United States is not a law of nature; it doesn’t have to exist. The system may only allow two options, but it does not guarantee that either one of those options will keep the system viable. Reduced harm is still harm, and at some point we needed to stop doing it.
This rhetoric is what is known as accelerationism. It’s the idea that things have to get worse in order for them to get better. The United States not existing would mean the collapse of a society that supports about 340 million people. Letting the US burn to the ground is not useful, because it doesn’t help any of the people living here.
The truth is that things get better when people learn from their mistakes and the bad things that happen to them. They then use that knowledge to make things better. There’s no bottom to how bad things can get. Things can always get worse. And they will get worse unless we work to make them better.
Anyone can be tempted by the idea that they can make things better by letting them burn. But letting everything burn is how to harm the most people possible. In order to help anyone, we need to start leveraging power for each other. That means giving up on moral victories and analyzing strategies using utility instead of moral reasoning. edit: typo
My point here is, “The system that only allows for getting worse will never get better.”
Years of US history demonstrate that is not the case. People have demonstrated it is possible to make things better with our democracy. Women’s suffrage and the civil rights movement happened in the US in the 20th century.
Things have been getting worse since Reagan brought neoliberalism to the mainstream. The US wasn’t perfect. And on some social issues like gay marriage things have gotten better. But we are where we are now thanks to over forty years of neoliberism allowing the rich to extract wealth from everyone else. We have entered the billionaires forming an oligarchy around a dictator stage of late-stage capitalism.
Unfortunately our democracy uses a first-past-the-post voting system which trends toward a two-party system. This makes the Republicans and Democrats the only game in town.
Minority Rule: First Past the Post Voting
We need to leverage power to reduce the harm done to the minority groups fascists in the Republican party want to hurt. So rather than attempting to achieve a moral victory over Democrats, people on the left should do the most useful thing they can during elections for minorities and vote for Democrats.
The Alt-Right Playbook: The Cost of Doing Business
any chance you are one of the bright consultants who get paid millions by dnc to come up with the brilliant strategies to be so dogsit that they loose to orange buffoon ?
No, I’m one of the trans people you use in your pursuit of moral victories over the Democrats.
more like you are just selfish and rich.
deleted by creator
Me not going quietly to the death camps is me being selfish and rich according to you, got it. Real ally. =P
death camp ? you should have said you were in gaza or westbank, my bad. yeah being rich there aint gonna help. if you were here in us, you would atleast be able to work 16 hours to be one paycheque away from homelessness.
thoughts and prayers. best we can do as we don’t care about poor brown people irrespective of gender, age or still in womb.
I live in the US where fascists have put targets on the backs of trans people.
The same fascists have also pledged to let Israel finish their genocide. Weird you don’t care about that.
https://www.project2025.org/
https://www.25and.me/?topics=
Or you are the wealthy but new hotness in oppressed to the DNC to hook into to prove they care about something while it only amounts to culture identiry. But it allows them to take in heavy donations to further enrich themselves by pretending to fix things.
It’s clear that the trans community is still far to small a percentage of the populace to focus on as the main backing and asking other people to care about you and members of your community above their own well-being will not work because people are as selfish as everyone else.
I’m sorry but I really don’t care what happens within 2% of the population as long as they aren’t being killed compared to workers who make up the most of us.
So you won’t see me as a leftist using Trans as any kind of grandstanding cause I really don’t care or think you matter other than a funding source for pretend caring wealthy.
? edit: I mean, I gave 70 dollars to Harris’ campaign this year. I spent more on the Eldrazi Incursion commander deck at my LGS which was like 90 dollars. But I gave about $300 to Warren and $300 to Bernie in 2020 and none to Biden.
People are self-interested in that they care about themselves and the people in their immediate social spheres. However it is in the interests of people to vote for Democrats and against fascists.
Well it’s good of you to be honest, but fascists do want to kill us. Trans people and lots of other people are going to die as a result of fascist policies.
At least you’re honest about using trans people in pursuit of your moral victory over the Democrats.
You admit you have spare money to spend and use as donations to politics. Which is my point as most members of the Trans community does when they consider gender identity to be their biggest issue to deal with.
It’s not true for all trans people but the ones I hear from tend to have cash and I have known plenty of the LGBTQ community to be the most conservative because of their wealth. So are they willing to use themselves in their pursuit of moral victory?
It’s an identity. I literally said I don’t care and then you went and repeated your line about how you are more important. As if people are using you or spending you like currency for the election. It wasn’t about you.
Lots of people will die. Yeah start being part of the larger topic then and get your head out of your own fart box. Most of them won’t be upper class American trans people. And it certainly wasn’t about morals it’s about other people struggling that you demand agree with you in votes because you get better treatment under one party.
Maybe get with the people who care about not dying and show you do as well. As if saying, ask the DNC party to care about more than the trans community and specific shades of minority to get behind large populace movements for support is some kind of deep moral victory at your expense. Boo. Bad take.
Yeah, I had a job and disposable income before the company I worked for went out of business because of Trump’s covid policies.
Me spending that $70 dollars isn’t the win for your argument you think it is. Harris got to a billion dollars because millions of people donated to her campaign. People solved a collective problem by working together collectively, not by being rich.
For me it was stopping fascism. $70 seemed like a small price to pay to stop fascism for four more years. I care about trans people but the Harris campaign barely talked about trans issues so that wasn’t really a motivating factor. If they had talked about trans issues favorably I might have donated more. I gave $10 when Harris announced her run, I gave $20 when she picked Walz, I gave $20 when Harris debated Trump, and gave $20 when Walz debated Vance.
I made $100k working at my job for a little over two years plus over $30k in my 401k after gas, tax, and rent. I’m not rich by any metric. Do you prefer if I can’t afford to communicate over the internet so you won’t be inconvenienced by my voice? You argument conveniently ignores I donated to Warren and Bernie. Are they not morally pure enough for you?
I don’t want a moral victory. You clearly do. Don’t quit on the honesty while you were ahead.
People are more important than your moral victory.
Please do that for everyone’s sake. Thanks.
Refusing to vote for the Democrats until they are perfect on every issue is the pursuit of moral victory. It makes minorities the cost of doing business and isn’t a useful strategy for helping anyone. We didn’t get the right to marry who we want because people refused to vote for Democrats. Minorities strategically voted for Democrats for decades to get them and the US Overton window to shift to the left on that issue.
Why must one of those parties be the Democrats? I don’t see no fucking Whigs around, do you?
Democrats won’t reduce any harm. They’ll just send out fundraising emails, like they did when Roe was overturned. During this last cycle, they threw the undocumented under the bus and Democratic candidates were parroting Republican “boys in girls’ sports” hatred.
edit: sorry i was replying to to your parent comment.
No. They only hire people who say what they want to hear, which is “move to the right at all costs.”
Because unlike the Wigs, the Democrats are not divided over slavery. They can just move to the right on contemporary issues as Chris Murphy details here. edit: typo
Hi, I’m a trans person. I’m not the most at risk trans person since I’m pre-transition, but it’s definitely a case of they would if they could. I would not like to be murdered in a death camp please. Like if Democrats can’t get trans messaging right, because they suck at winning, fine. At least they aren’t trying to completely ostracize me from society and make me dig my own grave. I hope that gives a different perspective on this.
Democrats have no concept of solidarity. None. They just haven’t thrown you under the bus yet, but they’ve let you know that they will. Their candidates have been using the Republican “boys in girls’ sports” hatred in their campaign ads.
The undocumented? Under the bus. Muslims? Under the bus. Rail workers? Under the bus. If you expect solidarity from Democrats, prepare to tuck and roll.
Two Democratic politicians already threw trans people under the bus, saying the party is too left on trans-issues, and then parroting the “people don’t want biological boys in girl’s sports” bullshit.
And then that one Dem who ran the campaign ad “I’ve never pushed for sex changes,” or something like that.
I’m trans too, and honestly, I will never be supporting the DNC again after hearing that from two of their congressional members.
Democrats have only recently been openly favorable to gay people within the last decade. Minorities have been using the Democrats to shift things to the left in this country for decades before that.
I’m aware of the messaging. That’s still not the same as a ban on gender affirming care, removal of employment protections, and the rounding up of homeless people.
Biden actually helped rail workers. He should have stuck with them from the start and done more, but it’s better than nothing.
https://www.npr.org/2023/02/10/1155763336/freight-rail-workers-union-paid-sick-leave-bernie-sanders-csx
The people who I would have expected solidarity from is the left. But instead I am constantly confronted by people who want moral victory over the Democrats. In this arrangement, I am the ball. Instead of kicking me, how about we leverage power to help people.
Vote for Democrats in elections not because they will fix our problems, stand with us, or even do what we want, but because it is how we demonstrate power to the fascists. It’s how we protect the people that Republicans want to harm and kill. It’s how we buy time to get a populist movement to co-opt the Democratic Party.
Biden taking credit for the work of rail workers whose right to strike he opposed is rich.
You want solidarity in one direction only. You want the left to worship the Democrats no matter who they throw under the bus.
You already got your actual victory over the left. You just want critics to shut up about it.
What power? The left, in your estimation, has only the power to lovingly smooch the ass of the center as they move to the right and ONLY the right.
THEY. SUPPORTED. GENOCIDE. I get that that’s a selling point for you, but some of us see that as already fascist-adjacent. And moving right from that just gets you fascism.
But like he did help them though.
No, I want people to actually care about minorities instead of virtue signaling. I’m not interested in being currency in your game of moral purity with the Democrats.
You got your victory over the Democrats at the expense of minorities, but you want 2026 and 2028 too. Well, Republicans might not even give us those elections or an opposition party at all now, we’ll find out.
We have the power to stop fascists from taking power, killing people, and destroying the environment. We can even educate people and co-opt the Democratic Party. I recommend you read what I wrote.
Biden supported genocide. Members of his own administration pushed back against him in open letters. You don’t care about the Palestinians. Genocide is a word you can type in all caps that you think will win you arguments on the internet. It holds no material implications with you whatsoever or you would be railing against Trump’s promise of indefinite genocide.
As someone closer to the chopping block than I would like, I am no longer phased by that bullshit. I’ve got the right screaming at me that they want me dead, and I’ve got people like you on the left screaming at me to be silent as they drag me the rest of the way there. The Palestinians are worse off now because of people like you and your virtue signaling and so is everyone else.
Your vote is appreciated. Your rhetoric is not. We don’t live in a moral universe. This universe is physics based. You acting in a way that is consistent with your subjective moral values isn’t going to help anyone. In fact, it’s going to let Republicans and other fascists all over the world run right over the people you claim to care about. Learn to analyze strategies based on their utility. edit: typo
The Democrats are the tool we have at our disposal. I intended to use that tool for as much as it can be used for. Help me.
But like maybe you should have read the article you posted. Then again, since you think that “we totally want to” is a policy, “we’re taking credit” is the same as an accomplishment.
You’re just interested in anyone who is even remotely dissatisfied with Democrats shutting up or being shut up, regardless of what Democrats do.
Dude, I fucking tried to warn about what was going to happen and I wasn’t the only one. At least here on lemmy, it meant being called a trumper and a Russian every last time. But yeah, the party moved to the right and alienated the base and exactly what I was called a Russian for saying happened. Democrats stayed home. Your faith in the willingness of the Democratic Party to change for the better is misplaced. If they continue on their current course, they will lose 2026 and 2028. And despite your constant pollyanna insistence that if we just care bear stare at them they’ll change, I have no remaining faith in the party. Not after this election.
As did Harris, vague meaningless non-policy promises notwithstanding.
Ooh. Were they strongly worded?
This thread is about Democrats. Of course Trump is worse. That doesn’t excuse selling weapons for an ongoing genocide.
I’m telling you not to be a damned fool. The party will sell you out. It’s what they do. It’s a pattern of behavior that you’ve been making excuses for.
Who is screaming at whom to be silent?
They’re using you. Not the other way around.
I did. Biden should have done more. But he didn’t do nothing.
I want people to be vocal. You’re doing that. I disagree with what is being said.
And I tried to warn you people. You played right into the hands of MAGA and the Kremlin. We knew who Harris and the Democrats were. The goal was to prevent fascism anyway. There was no other viable strategy, but people still tried to sink Harris’ campaign anyway.
The Democratic Party is a tool, not a friend you need to have faith in.
I showed receipts. Reiterate the same lie as many times as you want. It will still be a lie.
What matter’s is that it was Biden’s decision. People in his administration disagreed with him.
No, I mean you wouldn’t still be in this thread shitting on Democrats if you cared. You would want to spend your time going after Trump, since he’s going to president, but that’s not where you are directing your energy.
That’s what I’m telling you. We need to co-opt the Democrats. I’m not making excuses for their behavior, I’m arguing for a strategy to advance our goals. Voting for Democrats until the party is co-opted by a progressive and socialist populist movement buys us time to make that happen. If you read my comments you would know my argument’s position by now.
You at me. Be vocal. But do it in a way that is useful.
People are definitely using you. They got you arguing against your own interests and you don’t even know. Or maybe you don’t care. That moral victory is too important to you. edit: typo
A big issue with this approach: The United States is not a law of nature; it doesn’t have to exist. The system may only allow two options, but it does not guarantee that either one of those options will keep the system viable. Reduced harm is still harm, and at some point we needed to stop doing it.
This rhetoric is what is known as accelerationism. It’s the idea that things have to get worse in order for them to get better. The United States not existing would mean the collapse of a society that supports about 340 million people. Letting the US burn to the ground is not useful, because it doesn’t help any of the people living here.
The truth is that things get better when people learn from their mistakes and the bad things that happen to them. They then use that knowledge to make things better. There’s no bottom to how bad things can get. Things can always get worse. And they will get worse unless we work to make them better.
Anyone can be tempted by the idea that they can make things better by letting them burn. But letting everything burn is how to harm the most people possible. In order to help anyone, we need to start leveraging power for each other. That means giving up on moral victories and analyzing strategies using utility instead of moral reasoning. edit: typo
It’s not accelerationism at all! It’s fatalism.
Accelerationism is, “It has to get worse before it can get better.”
My point here is, “The system that only allows for getting worse will never get better.”
Years of US history demonstrate that is not the case. People have demonstrated it is possible to make things better with our democracy. Women’s suffrage and the civil rights movement happened in the US in the 20th century.
Things have been getting worse since Reagan brought neoliberalism to the mainstream. The US wasn’t perfect. And on some social issues like gay marriage things have gotten better. But we are where we are now thanks to over forty years of neoliberism allowing the rich to extract wealth from everyone else. We have entered the billionaires forming an oligarchy around a dictator stage of late-stage capitalism.