And apparently, also when you think that ‘They’ is a perfectly serviceable gender-neutral singular pronoun, but are willing to use other pronouns if asked to.
EDIT: Other removable offenses on Blahaj now include questioning mod/admin decisions and quoting the modlog as a reason why you’re leaving.
We really need to stop complaining about the pronouns shit, the real problem with dragonfucker isn’t with the preferred pronouns, it’s the fact that dragonfucker is known to harass individuals who call them out on their trolling or sealioning or disagree with them in any way they can’t spin as aggressive or hateful.
I was harassed by an alt of this person because I called them out for their behavior when they decided to make a public attack post on me (now deleted) because I preemptively banned their user account and “spouse” account from communities I moderated for trolling, sealioning, and bad faith arguments.
I clarified that politely and reasonably and also properly contacted pawb.social’s admins (since the mentions in their comment weren’t done properly) and the following response was to create @draconicistransphobc@discuss.online and create !fuckdraconicneo@discuss.online and start spamming it with abusive content attempting to defame, humiliate, intimidate, or even just scare me. That account also sent me porn in my DMs and made rude insults towards me. I was also told to kill myself and also sent death threats, including an invitation for admins to give out my IP address so I could be hunted down and tortured.
I’m almost certain that dragonfucker is the one who did this since it happened immediately after the post which was made on !meta@pawb.social complaining about the bans, and also there were many slip-ups by that account which indicated it was an alt belonging to dragonfucker. Unfortunately beyond that dragonfucker likely did a good job at covering their tracks, or Lemmy just sucks at identifying people, probably both, but I’m confident enough that I’d be willing to bet real money it was dragonfucker, the circumstances are way too suspicious.
Edit:
Here are some of the messages and comment mentions from the alt account mentioned in the post, fair warning, they’re not pleasant. Pornographic imagery has been censored.
CW: Abusive content, threats, suicide encouragement, harassment
A lot of contextual information for these isn’t here, to get it the admins of pawb.social and discuss.online would need to be contacted as the content and user accounts associated have been banned.
Jesus Christ yeah that’s a lot worse than whatever OP is whining about
Yeah it’s way worse, the pronoun thing that people are whining about isn’t even an actual issue. This type of extreme aggression absolutely is. And even though these offenses were committed on an alt and can’t exactly be concretely proven, dragonfucker has committed other offenses on the dragonfucker@lemmy.nz main account, like encouraging trans people to commit murder-suicide and harassment of user and moderator @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world (something I watched happen in front of me). Dragonfucker is a bad person and it’s really upsetting and concerning that most people don’t understand why, instead just complaining about neopronouns.
dragonfucker is known to harass individuals who call them out
The fact that calling them “them” would get your comment deleted is definitely also a problem.
But yeah, this whole mess revolves around one unambiguous asshole. The same crybully keeps coming back with new accounts and new gimmicks to pull the same shit. And it works - because the Blahaj admin takes the most hardline stance possible, and treats all criticism of it as bigotry. So this apparently-unstoppable douchebag just has to whine that someone said “fuck you, troll”, and Ada acts like the rudest part was saying “you.”
As if it’s a slur.
What I think is the worst part is that I’m a queer person, this person has attacked me in various ways as a queer person, and has attacked other queer people. Yet Ada said she just hasn’t seen the evidence, she hasn’t looked at it.
When Ada made that post, and I knew it was about the dragonfucker drama, I never felt more unsafe on a queer friendly instance as a queer person, because I know that if this shit happens again they’ll stand behind dragonfucker, and defend all the lies about how the alt account isn’t actually dragonfucker when I and many other people absolutely know it is.
And the alternative explanation is, hey guess what, your absolute no-questions-asked policy attracts dozens of miserable abusive goblins.
Your mods hate “them” enough to consider moving the one notable community to another instance entirely. This one policy threatens to reduce your instance to an irrelevant niche, because any random asshole can pull ‘did you just assume my gender?!’ trolling, and erase moderators.
I’ve seen pawb around enough to recognize the name. Detached from reality or trolling. IDK. I’m totally guilty of rapping the glass.
Dragon is a purity test troll:
By using absurd conversational standards backed by the reasoning of “nontraditional identification / self”, they troll both you, and mods into playing the purity “jump how high” game. If the mods flinch, and tell them to tone it down, the community will eat them alive. If they call you out, the mod has to pull the trigger.
I’m not saying the mods are free from blame, but they are so high on their own supply that banning you is the only option.
Non binary folks deserve respect. Non traditional pronouns are worth respect. The way dragon uses them is a problem because they are inconsistent with any logic… They use them semantically wrong
semantically wrong
This, TBH. It’s just speaking in third person. You’d think if it’s not trolling, at least you’d know what a pronoun is, from a grammatical standpoint.
I don’t think “nontraditional” quite covers it. He, she, they is enough to cover the whole spectrum and anything beyond that is a blatant call for attention that should be discouraged at this point.
There is room to call for more pronouns, but individual and unique monikers are not that. Japan has a range of pronouns that are more useful (or at least more interesting) than what English has, and some languages lack even English’s anemic selection (like, French doesn’t have an official neutral pronoun apparently).
There’s a comment that I read recently that points out how “Anon” (among other words) is technically a pronoun.
I find it interesting, and I thought you might as well.
It’s an interesting point, but in my view, Anon is a pseudonym rather than a pronoun, as it’s used in place of their actual name.
I’d argue that a bespoke pronoun (one that a specific person came up with specifically so they can be referred to by it) is less of a pronoun than “Anon” is, which can apply to anyone.
In fact, I struggle to think of definitions for “pronoun” and “pseudonym” such that “Anon” is a proper pseudonym and a bespoke pronoun is a pronoun.
Edit: I have this person tagged as
Labeled me as “tells people what they’ve labeled people”
People who want to have a discussion about neopronouns are absolutely welcome to, and while I find them aesthetically displeasing and unneeded, it’s no more inherently invalid than any other development of language.
I couldn’t have worded this any better
I think that account is a social experiment designed to see how fucking bizarre of a line of bullshit can they force down other people’s throats
Yup. I’d bet money on it.
hmm interesting
Anon is at it again?
AlwaysHasBeen.jpg
That dude is laughing his ass off at all the drama he’s caused.
Who, OP?
The well known troll op was originally talking about.
Sorry, Hate me but if peoples are having and not hurting anyone. I wouldn’t care. Yeah, Dragonfucker have confusing pronoun and I am not even native english speaker. That’s why I avoid talking to Dragonfucker if I accidentally mispronounced then everyone will think I am homophobe?
But “They” is gender nuetral term.
Never would I read this.
Yeah, I got, I’m guessing perma banned by Ada(?), from there, because I asked to many questions (just one post) about a statement that made no fucking sense to me, on someones post.
Oh! And aggressive disgusting responses back to my questions were way more hateful and vile than anything I’ve ever posted anywhere, especially directly to another person. Misgendered me, verbal attacks, etc. Went to report that shit, couldn’t because of ban. Didn’t see those folks banned or their comments removed though. Guess hate speech and violence is ok to them, if your not trans enough for their elite dragon-fucking club.
I’m on the spectrum. I get upset when I can’t make sense of shit and DO indeed ask a lot of questions that seem dumb or rude to others. My brain is trying to figure out the rules and meanings of this new idea… get a grasp of the boundaries.
Thought Blahaj would be a safe place to hang around for an oddball like me, all the inclusitivity talk n shit. Big mistake! Honestly thought about leaving lemmy, think I had more response to that than anything else I’ve said on here, and it was truly awful to read. Made me question myself and feel really really shitty for not understanding then getting attacked because my questions are to snarky(?), the reason I usually escape TOO here, and rarely respond or post even then. Then my adult brain kicked in and I realize they are a bunch of idiots who think a dragon is real and providing sage advice, and I’ll just block that shit. Miss some of those memes though.
Some of the most performatively inclusive communities are the most hateful in substance. It’s like US Christians. Because they have a badge of good-person-ness, it’s perfectly okay for them to do whatever to you.
For additional context, the removed comment by !Batman@sopuli.xyz that was removed by Ada was:
Oh, wow, so many questions! Is that the new tactic? Tell folks they can’t be free to identify how they feel now? Gee, I don’t see that going well for acceptance becoming common place but, whatta I know? Seems kinda on par with having been told, “… you don’t get to choose your gender, god does…” How do we get or give these official “ally” titles to pass out? Do they need to be notarized or is there another way to make sure they are genuine? Is there a checklist or website available to ensure worthiness before certifying an ally? Is there a membership cost? Are all lgbtq+ folks allowed to certify, or only particular groups? I have sooo many more but those seem important to start and avoid any penalties. …Oh shit, are there penalty fines??
Yep! That was it! Responding to something about having to “earn being an ally” … I still am not sure wtf they mean, I have to commit deeds before I am friend instead of foe? If I’m an egg, or in the closet, I have to out myself before I can have or be supportive? I’m still am not sure. Chalking it up to I’m too old and they’re to cliq-ey, or, they are just a bunch of assholes. Leaning latter now that I see that those who ask just one question get banned too.
I know through text it’s easy to come off sounding angrier or meaner than intended but I don’t see anything perma ban worthy in my response. Wanting to block me for that, sure… temp ban to cool off, of course. I could absolutely be dick not worth engaging with. Peruse my short history… see that even if I am, I am not going around trolling people or being abusive. I’m just confused idiot with a sailor’s mouth.
I can see why Ada removed it, but a permaban doesn’t seem necessary in my opinion. I’ve changed it to a tempban you should be able to comment again next year (3 days from now).
I can’t. Seems like a dumbass thing to ban someone for.
yeah those all seem like really good faith questions
/s in case it isn’t fucking obvious
So after accommodating for and accepting people who use neo-pronouns, you won’t attempt to accommodate and accept people who are on the spectrum?
Thanks for looking into it! That seems like an acceptable limit. Still not sure if I will engage over there anymore after that. It seems quite chaotic and rather unnaccepting of any discussion of ideas. I will at least be able to give an upvote to meme posters who are funny and hope to encourage them to keep it up!
Getting banned on blahaj or hexbear is a good sign that you’re still sane tbh.
I legitimately thought better of Blahaj and Ada than this, and it’s very disappointing to see otherwise.
Blahaj is terrible, as every hardcore lgbtq+ community. They try to advocate for queer acceptance, but their radical behavior and batshit attitude are actually making them the biggest enemies of queer acceptance. They are helping rightoids sooo much.
queer acceptance
By whom?
It’s the sort of queer community that ejects other queers for not being queer enough.
Gatekeeping whether dragonfucker is a gender is a weird hill to die for. Perhaps equally odd is permabanning for it.
It would be, if that were what happened. What actually happened is someone on a trans instance with a non-binary identity (who, i might note, had the username dragonfucker, afaict extending that term to drag’s gender identity is an embellishment) uses neopronouns, some people got butthurt about it and argued with drag about drag’s identity being “real”, and the admin rightfully drew a line in the sand about misgendering people.
The tl;dr is this dude got told not to intentionally misgender people whether he thinks someone’s identity is valid or not, and he lost his shit over not being allowed to gatekeep queer people on a queer instance and left of his own accord.
accurate analysis
Not featured is the key piece of information. Blahaj is specifically a trans safe space. Pronouns are kind of a big deal in that community. Telling them they aren’t really LGBTQ unless you approve of their pronouns is not going to go over well.
It is all good, everybody is just learning to avoid such places. This how fediverse is developed.
A whole thread talking about @dragonfucker@lemmy.nz brodie must be geekin reading all this😂
A job well done…
I think modlog could be that unique fediverse content genre.
So much potential!
I mean, if I were somebody who wanted to make the resistance against the nazis weak, this is exactly the kind of bullshit I might think to do. I’m not saying that’s why this is going on. Just that there’s no reason to rule it out.
I think it’s also pretty relevant that dragonfucker has multiple times said that if you’re feeling suicidal, then you should instead get a gun and start shooting Trump supporters.
If you’re planning on killing yourself, go buy a gun and take a red hat with you. Drag is serious. Get out if you can. Move to another country. But if you’re actually hopeless, and there’s nothing anyone can say to dissuade you… Then make it count.
https://lemmy.nz/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=12587481
if you’re feeling suicidal, then you should instead get a gun and start shooting Trump supporters.
I disagree with them about “dragon fucker” being a gender (I think people have started using “gender” as a synonym for any aspect of identity, and I find that annoying). I think they’re making a correct utility assessment.
Can you clarify what you mean by that, please?
Edit: I’m going to assume that it probably means what I think it means. I reported the comment for advocacy of murder/suicide.
I don’t think that it’s good to kill oneself, and I think doing neither thing is better than doing both. Sorry, the comment was made when I was falling asleep and poorly phrased. I was considering that depression causes one to not wish to do anything and so giving someone a difficult goal is a good way to avert it long enough for them to get the help they need.
I was considering that depression causes one to not wish to do anything and so giving someone a difficult goal is a good way to avert it long enough for them to get the help they need.
In my experience, most people who are suicidal want, more than anything else, just a way out. They have desperation for some way to release what they’re feeling and not have to go through it anymore. Painting a picture of one, and telling them that they can make it all count for something and then it’ll all be over, is one of the darkest and most fucked-up things I’ve ever seen on the internet in all my time here. So no, I don’t agree with your analysis.
As a side note, I also don’t see any connection at all between “correct utility assessment” and what you just said.
I also don’t see any connection at all between “correct utility assessment” and what you just said.
Okay. Actions have positive utility or negative utility based on the results. Telling someone to do something bad is bad if they actually do the bad thing. If by telling them to do the bad thing you just stop them from doing a different bad thing, then the action of telling them to do the bad thing can have positive utility even if the proposed action has negative utility.
Right: at the very least, it’s like saying ‘my gender is bisexual.’ Nope. That’s a different thing, buddy. It could be part of your identity, but it’s not that part of your identity.
I think the only neo pronoun I know is xe/xir, even then I don’t know why you would use it above they/them
Some people don’t care for ‘they/them’ as singular neutral because they’re used to it as plural.
Some people want a pronoun(s) specifically for NB identities, rather than a purely neutral pronoun.
These are both valid, if contentious, points.
I don’t know about that first one, actually. Lots of people are used to objectively wrong or bad things, doesn’t mean those things are somehow right or good.
We define language by its usage, and there is definitely a significant subset of native English speakers who regard the usage of singular they as wrong.
I mean, they’re WRONG, but I can only say so from the perspective of a fellow speaker according to my own thoughts and preferences; language doesn’t have an objective arbiter and I acknowledge that it is both widespread and not some inherently absurd notion.
There are a few others. Many are somewhat historical from before the singular they was agreed as default
Doesn’t bother me. If it did, I’d block them. I actually found the whole thing a rather entertaining spectacle of flavor. I’m a middle age cis white guy. If you want to be called tuba, or tata, or whatever, I don’t care. If you use a foreign language like Chinese or Arabic I dislike my own ignorance and inability to understand, but I still respect the person’s decision.
Ultimately language rules are only a loose correlation based on use and culture. Rules and norms do not create language or cultures, people do. I only see people resisting the patently unfamiliar. “Dragonfucker” or any other pronoun is no different to me than a nickname. If something so simple is able to make just one person feel a little better about their life for a few moments, I’m happy to oblige. The Hippocratic aphorism “first do no harm” does not appear violated in my opinion. If annoyed, block them.
Yeah I will use preferred pronouns for people and users I respect when referring to them. It, xim, drag, doesn’t matter.
My contentious take is that using “they/them” in place of the preferred pronoun is not misgendering. I will use it to refer to people identifying as women, men, non-binary, or anything else, it should be neutral. I try to be inclusive as a best effort, and for all intents and purposes treat them as my equal. However, I’m not on a “nickname” basis with everyone and will just block if their asks become not worth my time.
I’ll disagree on that, but it’s complicated. I’m a trans woman that’s semi passing. When I’m dressed even remotely androgynous or if I haven’t told a person irl that my pronouns are she/her, or even if I think they may have forgotten then I don’t consider it misgendering. But sometimes people are clearly refusing to address me with feminine pronouns, despite me having told them several times, presenting myself femininely, and them correctly gendering the cis and cis passing women near me.
I see using they/them as choosing not to engage with gender at all, so I cannot fathom a circumstance in which it would be misgendering to use such pronouns. If the argument against is that someone in refusing to address one by their preferred gender, I can see some merit in that position, but ultimately I believe one cannot force another to engage with them in terms of gender.
Now, if one were to intentionally use masculine pronouns to refer to someone who wishes to be addressed in feminine or nonbinary terms, of course that meets the definition of active misgendering. But I believe anyone has the right to simply refuse to interact with another with regards to gender by using common, nongendered pronouns respectfully.
It’s a form of refusing to accept my gender as I say it. You’re welcome to it, I won’t seek to have you arrested for it or anything but if you call all cis people by their gender and all trans people by the neutral I will choose to not interact with you as possible because you aren’t acknowledging my gender
There is some nuance to it, when someone is obviously trying to avoid addressing you in the same way you make the effort to address someone else, that is a sign of lesser respect.
Otherwise I hold the same view as lemonmelon described.
Pretty much agreed with you here
Fuck them.
I think essentially, we call people what they want to be called out of respect. Even if it seems ridiculous.
Also “drag” as a pronoun confuses me I just think of drag shows. Ironic?
Please refer to my comment on this related post: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/34327347/15649022
