Yes but they have much, much , much wider margins than cell phone manufacturers. Yes, phone manufacturers will add a $0.1 DAC/AMP chip instead of a $2 because of profit margins in the 100k unit range. The actual DAC IC chips that are very good are not too expensive. The metal housings are literally more expensive. It is not expensive at all to put a good chip in there, it is all the bean counters saying that they have to increase quarterly profits.
Plus “audiophile” DACs are literally 80% snakeoil. Because listening is so subjective, they heavily rely on audiophiles’ quest for placebo effect and after-purchase self justification, both of which are a strong phenomenon. Above a FIIo E10k (literally uses a PCM5102, which is very cheap ), you get massive diminishing returns. Then above the ~150 or 200 mark, they all use very similar chips and just play around a bit with distortion on DAC/AMP stacks. Without distortion, there is no discernable difference between them.
I was a signal integrity engineer for years, we can cleanly convert signals in the MHz range (>25x faster than audio signals) and process signals in the >5GHz range. Audio is literally child’s play to have near zero noise and 99% perfect analog conversion… Even a product I am working on now where the audio is medically needed to be a certain delay and fidelity to trigger biometric measurement feedback, the DAC chip is extremely cheap compared to “audiophile” gear…
There is a reason why pretty much everyone fails a blind DAC comparison. If there were double-blind tests performed, probably like <1% of the audiophile population (that is already very low) that has extremely abnormal hearing would be able to tell DACs apart consistently above a fairly low threshold.
It isn’t so much power because that’s cheap and easy. It’s the hardware processing the data. A DAC is what decides whether or not sound is clear at any given volume, and the cheaper ones have a tendency to distort or otherwise suck as volume increases
I mean, there’s a difference in DACs. Creating one is pretty universal afaik, but they’re not all created equal.
I have an old lgg7 that sounds great out of the box. My main phone, however, is a cheap oneplus, and it’s meh, but when I plug in an external DAC, the sound improves detectably, even to my old ears.
My kid’s phone is some random nokia and sounds like crap, even through my best headphones, at high volume. Plug in the DAC, clear.
It’s a thing. The on board DAC limits how volume affects sound quality for sure, and some don’t even need the volume up to start having audible breaks and distortion.
Now, some of that is android. Crappy devices benefit from a player that has its own audio processing. You fiddle around in poweramp in particular, and you can usually get things to where it’s clear enough to be bearable at high volume. But there’s still a limit if the DAC isn’t solid. But a device that has a great DAC won’t have the issue at all unless you go crazy with the eq, which is possible on any hardware or software.
My g7, maxed out, is clear as a bell at any volume, so long as the source file is good. Same with the external DAC. Both are true regardless of using the headphone jack or usbC for output, with headphones or a system (home or auto).
Is that a big concern in 2024? Devices are much more powerful and audio is cheap and easy.
You’d be surprised. Good quality compact DACs are very expensive unless the manufacturer engineers a better version.
Are they though?
This isn’t the 90’s. All it needs to do us produce an analog stream.
It depends entirely on the quality of the drivers in the headphones and the listener. Portable USB DACs for audiophiles run upwards of $200.
Yes but they have much, much , much wider margins than cell phone manufacturers. Yes, phone manufacturers will add a $0.1 DAC/AMP chip instead of a $2 because of profit margins in the 100k unit range. The actual DAC IC chips that are very good are not too expensive. The metal housings are literally more expensive. It is not expensive at all to put a good chip in there, it is all the bean counters saying that they have to increase quarterly profits.
Plus “audiophile” DACs are literally 80% snakeoil. Because listening is so subjective, they heavily rely on audiophiles’ quest for placebo effect and after-purchase self justification, both of which are a strong phenomenon. Above a FIIo E10k (literally uses a PCM5102, which is very cheap ), you get massive diminishing returns. Then above the ~150 or 200 mark, they all use very similar chips and just play around a bit with distortion on DAC/AMP stacks. Without distortion, there is no discernable difference between them.
I was a signal integrity engineer for years, we can cleanly convert signals in the MHz range (>25x faster than audio signals) and process signals in the >5GHz range. Audio is literally child’s play to have near zero noise and 99% perfect analog conversion… Even a product I am working on now where the audio is medically needed to be a certain delay and fidelity to trigger biometric measurement feedback, the DAC chip is extremely cheap compared to “audiophile” gear…
There is a reason why pretty much everyone fails a blind DAC comparison. If there were double-blind tests performed, probably like <1% of the audiophile population (that is already very low) that has extremely abnormal hearing would be able to tell DACs apart consistently above a fairly low threshold.
It isn’t so much power because that’s cheap and easy. It’s the hardware processing the data. A DAC is what decides whether or not sound is clear at any given volume, and the cheaper ones have a tendency to distort or otherwise suck as volume increases
That sounds like a dated idea. Modern hardware shouldn’t have any issues creating an audio stream.
I mean, there’s a difference in DACs. Creating one is pretty universal afaik, but they’re not all created equal.
I have an old lgg7 that sounds great out of the box. My main phone, however, is a cheap oneplus, and it’s meh, but when I plug in an external DAC, the sound improves detectably, even to my old ears.
My kid’s phone is some random nokia and sounds like crap, even through my best headphones, at high volume. Plug in the DAC, clear.
It’s a thing. The on board DAC limits how volume affects sound quality for sure, and some don’t even need the volume up to start having audible breaks and distortion.
Now, some of that is android. Crappy devices benefit from a player that has its own audio processing. You fiddle around in poweramp in particular, and you can usually get things to where it’s clear enough to be bearable at high volume. But there’s still a limit if the DAC isn’t solid. But a device that has a great DAC won’t have the issue at all unless you go crazy with the eq, which is possible on any hardware or software.
My g7, maxed out, is clear as a bell at any volume, so long as the source file is good. Same with the external DAC. Both are true regardless of using the headphone jack or usbC for output, with headphones or a system (home or auto).