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No. That sounds like wage theft. If my boss pulled something like that I’d be on the phone with my state’s department of labor so freakin’ fast. If you worked the hours they have to pay you for it.
Even if it weren’t illegal, it’d be a big flashing neon sign saying, “We will screw you over every chance we get, and you will be nothing but miserable working here.”
Security deposit had me reeling. This was written by a moron trying to form legal words and failing
the Employer version of SovCit language
Refer to your boss in all capitals to indicate interaction with their corporate entity, not the person
Throw in blue wax and a silver coin 😁
lol I’d seen the silver coins settle all debt bullshit, what’s up with the wax?
genuinely afraid of what lists I’ll end up on when I start searching for sovcit shit
Like in this post: https://lemmy.world/post/12782844
One of the ways they pretend to be official 🙄
TY!
No, this both uncommon and illegal (assuming it’s from the US). They’re trying to couch their wage theft in legal jargon to scare the unwitting into accepting it
I don’t think it holds up in court even if you sign it. It’s why contracts usually have clauses that if part of it is found void the whole contract is not void. You can’t do something illegal because you made someone sign a contract for it.
Others have heavily covered the legality portion of this but I want to point out one other key factor: any employer that tries to pull this kind of shit clearly has a significant employee retention problem, and they’re trying to fix it by trapping their employees financially rather than getting to the root of the problem.
Refuse to sign this agreement and find another job. If they let you join without signing this agreement keep applying elsewhere because you’ll almost certainly learn very quickly why they have such a bad employee retention problem
Or sign it, work a few days, and quit. Then report to the state and sue.
That’s probably only worth if your state has damages above and beyond what’s stolen from you; otherwise a lot of life hassle for a shitty job, which is what the deal was in the first place
At my last company, when I joined they gave me an employee agreement to sign that not only granted to them the rights over any software that I developed while working for them even if it was personal projects that I did for myself on my own time (which is standard corporate bullshittery) but also granted to them rights over anything that I had developed in my entire life previous to working for them. I told them they had to be fucking kidding me (like, surely they should have understood that at a minimum that would conflict with the rights of my previous employers who I had developed stuff for) and refused to sign it. They ended up hiring me anyway, without my ever having signed any employee agreement at all - I got like weekly email reminders from HR about it for a year until they finally just stopped.
That’s surprising that instead of striking the two clauses you objected to that just didn’t have you sign an employment agreement at all
You don’t have to ask us. Contact your state’s attorney general and/or workforce commission directly. They’ll know.
Edit: I speculate not. For one, my general understanding is “time worked is time paid.” You cannot be deducted pay for the cost of, for instance, mistakes.
For two, I don’t think a contract that doesn’t benefit you in any way is enforceable.
Edit3: The legal term I was thinking of here was Unconscionability
You might start clandestinely recording conversations with your supervisors if that’s legal in your state, just in case they try to pull some “off the record” shenanigans when/if you blow the whistle.
Edit2: There is a pretty good voice recording app in the fdroid repository. I’ve used “Simple Voice Recorder” from there, picked up good audio through my pants pocket, but your phone will vary and you should test the ability to record surreptitiously vs clearly before the recording is needed.
FYI: All the Simple Mobile Tools apps were sold to a really scummy company. The good news is the open source community forked them and they are now known as Fossify.
It’s always something. Thanks for the heads up, I’ll check that out.
It’s blatantly illegal, and the fact that they were dumb enough to put it in writing means you have a slam dunk case for your local department of labor. File a complaint, and let the DoL take it from there; The entire department exists to deal with bullshit like this, but they only act on complaints.
Yup, this is highly illegal, and I’ll bet as soon as they crack open this company’s books, they’ll start finding all sorts of OTHER illegal shit. Companies dumb enough to put this in writing are also dumb enough to not stop at committing one crime at a time.
Nope, that’s illegal.
Definetly not legal where I live (Europe).
It’s not legal anywhere in the US either. Yet.
As many have said, this is not legal if you are in the US. You can, and should, file a complaint online. Here is the process: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/contact/complaints
Russians have been know to burn places down as a form of protest.
I don’t know why that just popped into my head.
Check out my ornamental slicing machine. It’s from France.
Sorry, totally brain fart. You were saying?
I’ll just point out that 2000 North Koreans in China killed their managers and occupied a factory for weeks over something similar.
Oh wow, maybe North Korea is secretly enlightened after all
Very much illegal where I live.
Not to mention, if the company has to implement such practices, it means it has a problem retaining staff.
If it has problems retaining staff and solves it not by addressing the underlying issues but by extortion, why would you work for such a company? Their management is clearly incompetent.
No. It is legal and usual to pay in arrears (you work 2 weeks then get your check a week later) but it’s not legal (even here in Florida where workers have few protections) to withhold pay for hours worked. That’s wage theft, and it’s epidemic in the United States.
What job requires a security deposit?
In certain specific cases when one is working as a contractor, but never an employee, one may be required to put down a security deposit that would be returned upon completion of the contract.
Okay so first off if this a job you are thinking about taking just don’t. Legal or not I have never had a job do anything like this or anything close. At the very best they are looking to screw you, at worst they are stealing.
As for if this is legal (nal) my understanding is that for no reason can a company in the US dock, fine or in any other way deny you wages for any work already performed. It doesn’t matter if you did the work you need to be paid at the agreed rate. They can come up to you and just say that from this point forward the pay will be different, but only for future work.
The one exception to this that I am aware of is if you sign an agreement with them that lets them do this. Such as fines for lost uniforms. Often this will end up in a legal grey area though very few good businesses will do this.
TLDR business have to pay you for time worked. Crash the company truck they can fire you, but that last check has to be in full.
Businesses can tell you from this point onward your wage will lower in the US?
That can’t be legal can it? That’s a one sided change of contract.
The vast majority of employment is not under contract. That is why employment can be severed by either party at any time. So an employer could change a wage on an employee but there is nothing saying the employee has to accept it.
Not under contract? What does that mean? Do people just walk in and work there whenever?
No there is an employment agreement, but not a contract. So the employee and employer both agree to the terms of the work. This is just no requirement for the agreement to continue if either party wants to sever the agreement.
We don’t get employment contracts anymore, ever since every state passed “at will” employment laws. Companies can drop you at any time for any reason that isn’t one of a very small list ( racial discrimination, union retaliation, etc) with no notice to you beforehand. They also don’t need to provide any real proof for their reasons unless you file a lawsuit, there are plenty of stories of companies getting wind of possible unionism and they fire groups of people for being late occasionally or the location was underperforming when really it wasn’t.
I think you might be confusing at will and right to work.
At will has been the basic format of employment for the 20th century. It in its most basic form said that the possible employer relationship can be severed by either party at any time. When this is coupled with both protected classes and unions seem to work okay to protect the worker. It is the system of employment seen during the post WWII boom. It is not without its flaws, but seems to work okay.
Right to work is a classic case of misnaming to confuse voters, because everyone likes the idea of having the idea of having the “right to work” but all it really is a way to reduce union power. In a right to work state, workers cannot be compelled to join a union even if they are working at a union shop. In the short run this seems great to any individual worker. They are getting union pay without the dues. But overtime removes the protections that come with unions too by reducing the power of a union strike.
Workers are much better off in an at will state than a right to work state.
Edit in right to work states you can still be fired without cause.
If you are in the US, that’s likely very illegal. Wherever you are, talk to your state, Providence, federal, etc. labor board.
Depending on where you are it’s probably illegal
Super illegal
Super ultra mega illegal
Extremely illegal. Every minute you work must be unconditionally paid in full or they’re committing wage theft.
