Wtf. Why didn’t you mention the cringe lord emperor striker?!
Edit: using my mod powers to get attention.
Leaching on to mod powers to grab attention, for what purpose, I do not know.
To prevent the all powerful cum tsunami from wiping us all out
Nah, that one seems too funny to miss
Put me in the screenshot
Not me though thanks
Thank you god-modereor for showing us the way… By force!
Goderator?
Don’t give them any ideas!
The elon musk mindset. Lmao
Mod abuse… how typical. Is your thirst for power satisfied now?
What would happen if we would all be mods? Did you think about it? You didn’t, did you?
Can any mere man wield such ferocious, blinding power?
A terrifyingly, beautiful thing to behold. But only just a glance.
I’m scared, feel like… like an Upper Neolithic man witnessing Nikolai Tesla inside his Faraday cage, as the bright blue electric current crackles and arches all around him.@admin MOD ABUSE!!!
I mean if you have to ask, the answer is obvious.
Me as an instance admin sitting here reading about how Lemmy doesn’t have trolls and Russian bots, while I’m in a chat with other instance admins and mods where we need to actively coordinate to fight the trolls and Russian bots 😐
Thank you for your service! (sounds sarcastic, is not)
Yeah… OP is blind to the massive Kremlin and CCP propaganda problem here in the Fediverse.
After hexbear got defederated from most of the major instances, the fucking losers just make alts on different instances so they can continue defending that propaganda filled shithole. Now .ml seems like the new worst, no matter what you do these no-life losers will find a way to spread their bullshit.
Takes much more effort to try and stop them than it does for these losers to make alts unfortunately.
I was under the impression that the .ml admins actually promote them because it’s run by people from Hexbear.
It’s a bit more mask on, and there’s a few legit communities there, as opposed to Hexbear where the entire instance has a stated goal.
But it’s pretty bad.
Ml is run by the creators of Lemmy, and hexbear is well… Not. Hexbear made their own fork of lemmy a long time ago and only in the past year or so have they been actually able to federate at all. I don’t see the creators of Lemmy going through all that effort to hide their identities if they were actually running hexbear behind the scenes
Confusing the bear with 'grad
They’re not just some losers sitting on their mom’s basements, they’re paid or programmed to spread disinformation and division.
By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.
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Somewhere in Moscow, there’s a big red phone that connects to its counterpart in Beijing, where Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping discuss the latest attempts to influence an indie reddit spin-off with an elaborate network of Markov Chain LLMs producing comments like “I wish y’all wouldn’t be so nakedly racist towards people from other countries.”
Are you denying these operations happen?
Am I denying the existence of a branch of international foreign intelligence dedicated specifically to Lemmy.world?
Yes. 100%. Absolutely.
It’s pure paranoia.
Welcome to IT. If everything is on fire, they ask why you’re even here, and if everything is ready for the fire and there’s nothing left to do, they also ask why you’re even here
I’m yet to see any in the last year personally, so I guess it’s working?
That’s honestly pretty amazing that you’ve been here a year and haven’t seen a troll! Though you’re on an instance with a very active and determined admin, there is definitely a difference in how much you see between instances because of how removals work.
picking the right instance seems to be half the battle for users
You guys are pretty proactive about blocking and defederating bad faith instances, or even ones not doing enough to deal with bad actors. You were one of the first to defederate Hexbear, and I think you even defederated world at one point?
Hexbear defederated blahaj.zone, actually. Here is the original thread going over why.
The fuck is a chaser?
Here’s a good reddit thread over on r/asktransgender.
Chasers are dangerous to the trans community and turn people into fetish objects, rather than recognizing them as people. It ignores the desires of trans individuals who wish to be seen as the gender they identify with and explicitly chases trans individuals for their being trans.
Ie, a transwoman is pursued for being a transwoman and not for being a woman.
Hey that was me back when I had a kbin account. I’m the account in the screenshot.
That was a direct response to someone asking if I would have sex with a trans man. I got accused of being a chaser for saying “sure, I guess, pre-transition” (the first part) and being a transphobe for saying “but I’m not sexually attracted to dicks” (the second part). Note those two accusations are more or less mutually exclusive, but it doesn’t matter because they’re both deeply, incredibly stupid accusations. The mods and admins of blahaj pointed out how incredibly stupid the accusations were, and some people didn’t like being called stupid, so they went back to hexbear. And continued to be stupid.
To use an analogy, imagine you’re fat and trying to lose weight. Someone admits they are attracted to you, “sure, as long as you’re still fat”. Can you see how this would not be a good basis for a healthy relationship? You could even say it is a sign of a “chubby chaser”. Likewise for transness.
Also, people are overly sensitive because being denied full/legitimate relationships is a frequent pain point for trans people (esp trans women). The classic trope is the boyfriend who will take you on dates but refuse to introduce you to his friends/relatives.
To be clear, being a chaser is transphobic.
A chaser is someone who fetishizes and objectifies trans people.
Thank you for your service
Oh, hey Dave. Small world huh?
👋
I haven’t seen much of it at all in my 1+ year here, so y’all are doing a great job :3
The matrix admin group or a different one?
The matrix one
Well except for the entire population of Hexbear and the 'Grad…
I’m fairly sure they aren’t bots, but definitely pro Russia.
bots, sockpuppets, infowarfare it’s all different vlads in the same bag
Last I checked hexbear had something like 70% more total comments than lemmy.world despite only having a tiny fraction of the users. Sounds like bots to me
Hexbear has had an established and more active community for a longer time than Lemmy.world. You can visit Hexbear yourself and check, it’s not illegal or anything.
Over time Lemmy.world may overtake Hexbear, but not for a while.
I have imagined that ever since the Reddit emigration hype ended and things settled down a bit here that the vast majority of world and shit users are mostly lurkers and not terribly vocal, as is the case on a lot of other platforms.
Well Hexbear also had a policy of not showing down votes to encourage users to respond if they disagree instead of just down voting and moving on.
That’s very ironic given that they ban anyone further left than “Capitalist Russia is the best country in the world! Let’s support their invasion of Ukraine for no reason! Ughur genocide fake by the way! Is not so bad that Stalin banned being gay.”
It’s not that they don’t show downvotes only, you literally cannot downvote on Hexbear.
Yep, I agree, same goes for Lemm.ee and other “generalist” instances. Those attracted the most people from Reddit as they required the least knowledge before-hand of Lemmy and aimed at replicating Reddit in some ways.
More niche communities tend to be more active per user if they are well established, with Hexbear as a prime example.
Plus whenever somebody talks ill about the CCP over there they get barraged by copypasta responses. Their posts mirror popular posts on other servers, and generally lack any form of real discussion. The place looks like the bottiest of all instances and nothing can change my mind.
Skill issue.
A lot of troll accounts are semi-automated. They run a script that detects certain keywords, and posts premade replies to them (nowadays said premade replies are being finetuned with generative AI to look less uniform), also a human is watching over them to ensure both correct operation and to overtake in case of emergency.
Source: My father’s ex-girlfriend’s ex-boyfriend was (is) a paid online troll for Fidesz. They also had Discord (later Matrix if I recall) servers for organizing mass reports, downvotes, angry/haha react campaigns, often they also did some “private doxxing”.
Seems like a rock solid source making claims that are definitely falsifiable.
Well, it’s a first-hand account
you sent me an excerpt from a simpsons episode…
Yes, to make a point about the reliability of hearsay.
Vs you from lemmy.ml who’s just here to spread lies.
Y’all only know how to engage through ad hominem, huh.
And large parts of .ml, which is the bridge for hexbear to all the instances which defederated with them.
It really does feel like hexbear users are probably high fiving each other over their cubicle walls in Vladivostok. The admin openly states their goal is information warfare.
I’m convinced those people have to be elaborate trolls. Like the flat earthers.
nah - they are very real. Maybe sock puppets but real. I imagine them like rich 15 year old kids beeing “rad and cool”
Idk ozma was pushing a super hard the left should protest vote or not vote before getting called out in every thread. They have been slowly evolving the shill to be less and less obvious. Even started posting memes and other content to try and get the political agenda across without posting negative articles. Now the message isnt the very obvous up front don’t vote, but they are just “critical of Biden,” yet have nothing to say about anyone else. Doesn’t seem like an edgy kid to me.
Linkerbaan is similar but hasn’t evolved yet. Still an obvious shill.
Hey, I’m here! I said vote for whoever you want or don’t vote, that’s democracy.
I’ve said over and over I’m a gay guy living in the Los Angeles area and far left. I keep sounding the alarm Biden will lose to Trump but nobody wants to listen to me.
And then, the debate tonight everyone is surprised Pikachu face now.
Let it be said.
Is Biden complicit in the Genocide of Palestinians?
No everyone pointing this out is a Russian bot.
This thread is top tier Blue MAGA.
Weird how I didn’t say either of those things. Also pretty hypocritical to not like what I said, put words in my mouth, and then call me Blue MAGA. Really helps your point.
Now the message isnt the very obvous up front don’t vote, but they are just “critical of Biden,”
What were you trying to dogwhistle?
Love how you quickly diverted from the hypocrisy of putting words in my mouth and then do the exact thing you seem to be crying about of labeling me Blue MAGA because I said something you didn’t like. In the US we have a FPTP voting system. We do not have a luxury of choosing the best candidate, but the lesser of 2 evils. So pretending that protesting voting or not voting is standing for a cause is a joke and disingenuous. All it does is help the opposition party. You can be critical all you want but don’t pretend to be liberal when you know a protest vote or not vote helps the other party. The message was very clear they didn’t want people to vote. Now they are trying to be more subtle about it. But sure lets be a 1 issue voter and pretend a Trump presidency would be better for the social issues everyone crying Blue MAGA seems to care so much about.
There are still clowns who think that if they say “Blue MAGA” enough people will believe it’s real? Checks the username, oh, of course, it’s one of the regulars lol.
Tag them “shill” so you can save yourself some effort in the future
literal russian propaganda slogan
Everything to the left of Biden is Russia reeeeeee
“Blue MAGA” isn’t right or left, it’s just very stupid, very obvious, propaganda
They’re paid/programmed to do what they do.
Source?
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It’s super neat being in a different federation group than other posters, I have no idea what the bad places are like
.world is a Liberal cesspool
World and Hexbear are both liberal cesspits. One is full of centrists who think they’re leftists, and one is full of conservatives who think they’re communists.
Look, you haven’t sold me on the idea, but I’m going to upvote you because, if nothing else, this is an original take.
This just pretends democratic socialism doesn’t exist. Like there’s nothing between liberal and ML communist.
So, you are saying that if someone wants the same end goal as you, but has a differing opinion on how we accomplish that, you insult them. I’m sure you change a lot of minds and make a lot of friends with your method.
There is nothing between liberal and ML “communist”. They’re the same. Democratic socialism is to the left of both of those, and anarchist ideologies such as anarcho-communism, syndicalism, and mutualism are to the left of that. See, demsocs may not be the biggest fans of Marx, but they adhere far more closely to his ideas than Stalinists do.
I see now. Intriguing take you have. It’s different than the way everybody else classifies things, but I guess I can see where you are coming from. In my opinion, ML theory is pretty left leaning when it comes to economics and the end goal of it, but the authoritarian plan for transitioning to it does not align with most other leftist virtues and ideas.
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“a plague on both your houses” rofl
Why do you think Hexbear are not Communists?
They don’t want to have a communist revolution. They want to have a socialist revolution and then wait for the state to implement communism on its own. A true communist would act to bring about communism.
Have you by any chance read The Communist Manifesto or Critique of the Gotha Programme? Both are very short reads, and give some level of idea of what Marx is directly advocating for, as opposed to his general critique of Capitalism or his philosophical work on Dialectical Materialism. Marx was no Anarchist, he advocated for building Communism over time. This didn’t mean “waiting for the state to one day turn on the Communism switch,” that ignores his entire philosophy of Historical Materialism, whereby societal contradictions are worked out over time, as nothing is inherently static and everything is in motion.
None of this requires any of Lenin’s work to be read at all.
If you’re saying that a “True Communist” would somehow magically create Communism directly via revolution and not over time, then Marx was not a “True Communist.” At this point, you’re deeply silly, and simply redefining Anarchism as “True Communism” to win a game of semantics and label all non-Anarchists as conservatives.
Edit: oh, in another post you directly out yourself as a Soulist, and thus you disagree with Marx not only on his advocacy for Communism, but also his philosophy of Dialectical Materialism. At this point, you’re content to deny science and Materialism for the sake of pushing forward the idea that ideas create reality, which is deeply unserious.
Dialectical materialism is a misnomer. I’ll give you an example. Suppose Alice’s boss pays her one dollar an hour, while Bob’s boss pays him a thousand dollars an hour. A dollar is not a material object. It’s a social construct. These quantities are, material, simply numbers in a bank account. Less than that, because numbers are social constructs too. Materially, these are magnetised bits on a hard drive. There is no material sense in which Bob earns more than Alice. The fact that Bob earns a thousand times as much is purely social, not material. Yet, as a result of the exchange of social constructs, Alice lives in a slum and cannot afford medical care for the tumor that will kill her in a year’s time, and she is driven by necessity towards revolution. While Bob lives a life of privilege in a mcmansion with three healthy kids from three different ex-wives, and Bob is incentivised to maintain the status quo and oppose revolution.
If the dialectical philosophy of marxists were aptly named, it would be called dialectical determinism. Alice and Bob’s lives are governed by cause and effect, not by materials. They are governed by the cause and effect of social constructs. We can say that materially, Bob is more wealthy because he has a mansion, but why does he have a mansion when Alice does not? Because of a social construct. Not a material. It is wrong to say Alice’s desire for revolution is driven by materials. It is in fact driven by cause and effect, which is much more universal than mere matter.
Being a soulist does not make me the enemy of dialectical determinists, which is to say Marxists. But it does make me the enemy of realists, who misunderstand the lessons to be learned from Marx’s writing and fixate upon the physical to the exclusion of truth.
Oh, it appears I was wrong. You reject all of Marxism, including his critique of Capitalism via rejection of the Labor Theory of Value. Money is a representation of Exchange-Value, it doesn’t simply exist in our minds. Recognizing income differences is not an anti-Materialist take, pretending these happen for no reason is a rejection of attempting to understand Capitalism itself, and reality.
This is Idealism at its peak, and is a complete misunderstanding of what Materialists mean when referencing Social Relations. If you genuinely want to understand Dialectical Materialism, please read Elementary Principles of Philosophy by Politzer. Materialists understand social relations.
Alice’s drive towards revolution is due to her material conditions, which are caused by the material reality of Capitalism.
You are an enemy of Marxism and Marxists because you reject all 3 pillars of Marxism: Critique of Capitalism via the Labor Theory of Value, advocacy for Socialism as a way to build towards Communism, and Dialectical and Historical Materialism. Pretending to be the “One True Communist” while completely disavowing history’s most important Communist in every major manner is just anticommunism.
This is the worst thing that I have ever read, so bad that it made me make an account just to tell you how wrong you are.
First of all, if you even, for a second, thought about what you were saying this immediately crumbles. You dedicate a significant portion to talking about the material differences in the lives of those individuals, the property they own, the health care they can access, but then proceed to deny that it is the material conditions, that you have just laid out, that drive people towards certain ideas! You utterly contradict yourself.
Secondly, you just completely ignore how reality works and draw an arbitrary start line where everything just begins in a highly developed manner. The workers are not preordained to be workers, the bourgeoisie are not preordained to be such either. The people in your thought experiment would be in such a position due to a very very very very long history of subjective action arising from objective material conditions and social relationships (those relationships also arising from material conditions). So, dialectical materialism is very aptly named!
Thirdly, you have no idea what dialectical means and it is agonisingly obvious. A dialectic is the relationship between the opposite aspects inherent within a thing. So, with any morsel of philosophical thought it is readily apparent that “dialectical determinism” is an oxymoron. And I know you lack that said morsel of philosophical thought, so I’m going to explain it to you. The dialectic in question is the subject-object relationship, otherwise known as historical materialism: so if you remove subjectivity (which is a necessary consequence of a deterministic world view) you are debasing the subject to a mere object; and if there is no subject, there’s no subject-object relationship and thus no dialectic.
To wrap things up, stop trying to talk about things you’re beyond clueless about!
True leftism is when you reject reality, and anyone that doesn’t subscribe to your extremely niche, extremely online ideology is either a conservative or a centrist. Everyone who disagrees with you, whether on the basis of theory or history or material conditions or lived experience, is just too morally impure to achieve the same level of leftism as you, you are the One True Leftist, and you’re not going to let little things like what things exist or are possible get in the way of that.
Wow, a fellow soulist. You’re being a bit too evangelical, though. We actually have a discord server with over 70 members! https://discord.gg/nfbVVyXK. And if you don’t like that one, there are two newer servers run by different mod teams. https://discord.com/invite/w7tvaR6s. https://discord.gg/5THVKZrk. Also, many soulists come from diverse walks of life and have more lived experience of realist oppression than nearly anyone. For example, I have schizotypal personality disorder, so my experience of reality is neurodivergent to begin with. There are many otherkin and plural systems within the community. Even material conditions, which are fake and socially constructed, can radicalise someone towards soulism. Over half of soulists are transgender. Obviously, soulism is more attractive to any trans person than realism, because it offers faster and more complete transition than any realist ideology.
I am not a soulist. In fact, I consider it to be an extremely dangerous ideology. If you’re successful in undermining consensus reality, we’re going to have dragons and vampires running around terrorizing people. The moment reality becomes mutable enough for someone to turn themselves into something with mind control powers, like a mind flayer, we’re all fucked.
I am trans and neurodivergent, and I take offense at this statement:
Obviously, soulism is more attractive to any trans person than realism, because it offers faster and more complete transition than any realist ideology.
Trans identities are not a rejection of reality. I don’t find your ideology appealing in the slightest. I believe in objective science, and the science is 100% on the side of trans people.
Of course the science is in support of trans people. Realism is anti-science. The scientific method points us inexorably towards antirealism. Soulists oppose the manufactured, false consensus reality which denies trans lives experiences. Because we’re awesome. Mainstream movements say pre-transition trans women are female on the inside, but soulists say the outside body is a mental construct, and cannot be taken as fact in any sense.
Realism is anti-science.
Absolute nonsense.
but soulists say the outside body is a mental construct, and cannot be taken as fact in any sense.
Of course the body exists, in the same way that anything exists. It is an objective fact, and denying that doesn’t help anyone.
Why’s that? Got a problem with the left?
On what planet are liberals “the left?”
The world of a hundred years ago. Where I live, the liberal parties mostly want to create more freedom for companies to fuck people over.
Robespierre Did Nothing Wrong
Yep, pretty much. Liberalism serves the interests of Capital over people.
Liberals Left, Republicans Right, is the dichotomy of the US at least.
US liberals and US conservatives both share the core ideals of Liberalism, including the right to private property
They differ only in where they think individual liberty ends.
Overton Window, maybe, but that’s not a particularly useful categorization. Parties represent relatively fixed views, not directions.
In the US it’s a spectrum combining party policy and Overton Window. As you move left, you go deeper and deeper into increasingly extreme thoughts on policy regarding what we consider classic liberal topics such as social justice, corporate power, various societal and economic reforms, etc till it hits an extreme that’s considered radical to the average, the same goes for the right and classic conservative views.
Hugging the middle/mixed gray zone are the Centrist.
I think you’re a bit confused on terms.
Social Justice isn’t really a “Liberal” topic. It’s a topic many US Liberals generally are progressive on, but that doesn’t make it “Liberal.” Liberalism is also not about reforming the economy but maintaining “healthy” Capitalism.
Liberal views are therefore views in line with Liberalism itself, and Liberal Parties like the DNC represent Liberalism and movements towards Liberalism, not movements towards the left.
Social Democracy, ie what Scandinavian Countries have, would be centrist.
USA
Liberal in the US means progressive. It’s a term referring to social issues, not economic ones.
Liberal in the USA means Liberal economically, it’s just that economic Liberalism is more progressive than the alternstive, far-right populism.
Liberal in the USA means Liberal economically
No, it absolutely does not. You are lying.
Yes it does. The Liberals in the US support Liberalism. Calling someone a Liberal means they support Liberalism in the US.
Just need to swap SatansMaggotyCumFart with Jimmydoreisalefty.
@SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world is simply irreverent; not a troll.
I need to figure out what irreverent means so I know if I should be insulted.
Trust me - it’s better than some fucking herb…
It’s liberal for deeply unserious I think
Liberal or not I think we can all agree more unseriousness is needed on Lemmy.
The top voted comment on a shitposting post amounts to a “WELl aCTcTUAtLY” for X’s sake.
Well, actually, “well actually” comments under shitposts usually add ironic value and aren’t too serious, at least most of what I’ve seen
Damn I forgot about dore is a lefty!
He definitely is not. He’s a grifter that parrots a lot of right wing nut job conspiracy theories like anti-vaxxing. He’s a Liberal at most.
There is a user named JimmyDoreIsALefty who constantly posts bait and argues in the comments of it.
Sinister as shit.
Ok, so I’m not the only one who noticed that their spam has a weird taste to it. It’s got that vibe of some agreeable left-wing content but then feels likes it only there to mask authoritarian narrative building.
I’m glad I’m not the only one. That account is truly bizarre (from the point of view of how they write and express themselves). I’ve engaged with them a few times and it’s like a weird loop. I know it’s a real person, but it feels like talking to a script or dialog tree because it always goes down the same 1-2 dialog paths
I think it’s a bot assisted human. The amount of spam they output is inhuman but they do interact like a human at times.
@SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world is a maga troll that loves giving the Jan 6th traitors kisses on their little traitor faces
She’s more of a Devils advocate. Just stating the wrong opinion for others to explain what’s right. There’s never any clever comeback, so I kind of think that’s the reason for her to shitpost so heavily.
I’ve blocked plenty of trolls here, but not her, yet.
I like Jimmy’s contributions. :-/
Edit: some*
Even without any karma system, interacting with the users here is a breath of fresh air. Lemmy has the least shills and bots compared to the poison in most other platforms. It’s currently Lemmy’s best asset and where it stands out from all existing social media imo, and I hope it remains this way.
They’re certainly easier to avoid.
Lemmy has the least shills and bots
Because it’s not popular yet. Wait until it becomes so and the inevitable enshittification happens.
Enshittification isn’t what happens when something becomes popular, it’s what happens to disruptive tech and commodities that get increasingly fine-tuned for profit after competition inevitably floods in. It’s a product of monetization.
Lemmy is FOSS so that won’t happen, plus you can splinter off into your own walled garden instance like Beehaw if you want.
You make it sound like monetization can’t happen on a FOSS platform. Bots are a form of monetization, it’s just not by the people who created and control the platform.
As it gets popular, bots will come for the purpose of creating an audience and monetizing them.
That’s true, but it’s just not enshittification because it’s not done by the platform itself. It’s a different word.
Hmmm interesting. I was under the impression that enshitification was “making something shittier in the pursuit of (eg) greed”, I didn’t realize that it only applies to when the creator (controller? owner?) of the thing does it.
Has it always been used for this specific case? If so, what is the word for the more general case I described?
It sounds like a really specific definition, but you’d be surprised by how often it applies. He originally thought of it to apply to Tik Tok after noticing it following a similar pattern as Facebook, Amazon, and I think Google. Then the internet realized it could keep applying his term to so many more companies, like Spotify, Uber, Lyft, Airbnb, Reddit, Microsoft, Apple, all streaming companies, and even physical product companies like car companies or John Deere, etc and it’s shot up in popularity and use since then.
Not sure of the general use case you describe, but the person who invented the term in that article I linked sounds like he doesn’t mind if it’s used in a more general case for things getting worse from greed, so feel free to go ahead and keep using it I guess lol. Although maybe we should come up with a different, more general term for that if there isn’t already one? I’ve got nothing, but if anyone has suggestions lol.
Ey used the wrong word, but this in fact is correct. Once lemmy gets popular, bot farms will definitely will siege it, and the amount of “bots and shills” will rise
Maybe “dickheadification” instead?
Enshittification also happens because of government propaganda, like the authoritarian propaganda Lemmy.ml spreads for the CCP.
Aee you suggesting people on Lemmy.ml are paid by the Chinese government to spread propaganda?
Some of them yes, absolutely.
Do you have any source for that? I would be curious to see.
Let me ask friend in the CCP to send some of their files over for you to look at, it’s all very open and well documented.
I think, they are only paid indirectly in that the money are spent on propaganda to make them act like this
That’s a single instance, they can be blocked and avoided. The FOSS community is way more resiliant to enshittification.
Not really, their users make alts everywhere else too. It’s also quite easy just to keep setting up new instances too.
Deal with them just like regular trolls. You shouldn’t be like the Muskrat cultists who think content moderation is useless and thus should be given up on. I understand, I suffered from activism burnout on the regular (one was right in the middle of an election campaign), but one should not give up easily.
That’s not at all what I am saying. I am saying it’s easier to do moderation on more centralised platforms like Reddit, because moderators simply have more power and more tools there. The flip side of that being that it makes it easier for moderators and admins to abuse and ban people without recourse. I am not saying moderation is pointless at all, just that it’s easier with one platform than the other. There are pros and cons to both models.
I would argue being open source and decentralised are major advantages of Lemmy and are more than sufficient to justify its existence. Just that it also isn’t perfect either. There are always trade-offs to be made when designing a platform, and that’s something you should always bear in mind.
Have we forgotten that we also have Margot Robbie?
I think that she prefers “Academy Award-nominated character actor, and producer Margot Robbie”.
Star of the Barbie movie, now available on Blu Ray at your local retailers!
Are you saying that she’s a bot or a troll?
I’m saying she’s an academy award nominated character actor and producer
On the internet, no one knows if you’re A̶u̶s̶t̶r̶a̶l̶i̶a̶n̶ Academy Award winning actress Margot Robbie.
I’d estimate blocking ozma has reduced the amount of “Trump and the GOP may be attempting to install a fascist dictatorship but Biden’s old” nonsense in my feed by 95%.
I’ve blocked both of them, as well as the politicalmemes community and my Lemmy experience has gotten so much better.
Ozma got banned from politicalmemes recently and it’s 1000% better for it
Ah yes, “old”, the only criticism of Biden that does or could ever exist.
You could’ve talked about the genocide, but that would’ve made it sound less frivolous now, wouldn’t it?
Edit: For all the people who don’t like people talking about actual genocide that Biden is supporting, minimising the seriousness of a genocide because you think you have a good reason for it is still genocide denial. You have become genocide deniers for the sake of the dubious shift in votes from whatever population of voters you think will see you doing genocide denial and think “actually they have a point I’ll vote for Biden now”.
Edit 2: Your case isn’t helped by the fact that the only person arguing with me did so with genocide denial. Think about that.
Edit 3: The other person arguing is also doing genocide denial, but the oblique kind where you pretend that the only reason to criticise a sitting US president engaging in genocide is because you want him to lose an election. Almost like they’re denying that we should hold people accountable for genocide on its own merits. That is, and I cannot stress this enough, genocide denial.
And don’t forget capitalist Joe. Nobody is talking about the actual capitalism Joe is supporting because you think you have a good reason for it.
I’m assuming “you” in this case is the general “you”, because I absolutely do hate him for that as well. Yeah, Joe is a neoliberal capitalist, but nobody doing genocide denial on his behalf is going to be worried about that charge.
You point out that they’re genocide deniers and you get the person who responded to me fretting about whether we should really call it a genocide. You know, doing genocide denial, because people who have painted themselves into that corner aren’t going to stop doing genocide denial, they’ll keep showing you who they really are. That’s damning to anyone who’s really paying attention.
Actually I’m just pointing out that you’re complaining about something that won’t change. You can complain about Biden being a capitalist but every final presidential candidate has been a capitalist for I don’t even know for how many decades. You’re complaining into the void because unless the system itself changes there’s no chance to have a socialist president.
Similarly you’re complaining about Biden supporting genocide but the alternative, Trump, has pretty much said he will go gloves off and give Israel whatever they need. In fact you probably couldn’t find a president in the last 20 years who wouldn’t be supporting Israel. It’s not a specific president or presidential candidate that is supporting genocide, it’s the entire system. The only thing you realistically accomplish by complaining about Biden is sowing division.
As for the “genocide deniers”, well some people are just dumb and we have to accept that.
Actually I’m just pointing out that you’re complaining about something that won’t change.
The only thing you realistically accomplish by complaining about Biden is sowing division.
I don’t know about that, I think political possibility goes beyond who will be convinced to change their vote because you told people to stop complaining about Biden.
Like for instance, you acknowledging that the US is going to do genocide no matter what seems like a pretty damning thing to say, no? Seems like something worth saying. Seems like maybe we should condemn people who do genocide, or are willing to helm a nation that will make them complicit in genocide no matter what, because those are people that are going to do a genocide. Seems like maybe getting people on board with a system change involves pointing out that it is an inexorable genocide machine. And if that’s what it takes to stop the genocides - and you seem to agree with me on this - then maybe we should, I don’t know, talk about it?
Pretending that the entire value in discussing genocide starts and ends with who will be elected president is pretty minimising to the importance of the, you know, genocide. Seems like a kind of genocide denial to me.
As for the “genocide deniers”, well some people are just dumb and we have to accept that.
I’m yet to find a comment section that isn’t full of you fuckers.
I think if you think you need to do this to get someone elected, that’s actually counterproductive. Like maybe people associating Biden with genocide denial is going to make it harder for them to hold their nose and vote strategically like you want. It’s very hard to imagine the voter who would care about the genocide and yet be fooled into voting for Biden because people kept his genocide support on the down-low. Seems like you’re cutting off little pieces of your soul for the sake of a strategy that isn’t going to really work, unless you’ve got an A-to-B for me on how telling people to stop complaining about Biden’s genocide support helps him win election.
I’m yet to find a comment section that isn’t full of you fuckers.
I’m going to start from here because this is how you show how disingenuous you are. I straight up said I don’t agree with the genocide deniers and what do you do? You still lump me in with them. Your entire mindset here is “If they don’t agree with me they must be genocide deniers”. Fuck off with that shit.
I don’t know about that, I think political possibility goes beyond who will be convinced to change their vote because you told people to stop complaining about Biden.
Like for instance, you acknowledging that the US is going to do genocide no matter what seems like a pretty damning thing to say, no? Seems like something worth saying. Seems like maybe we should condemn people who do genocide, or are willing to helm a nation that will make them complicit in genocide no matter what, because those are people that are going to do a genocide.
Political possibilities goes beyond when you stop complaining about a part of the problem and start criticizing the problem as a whole. Biden is only a part of the problem, the real problem is that the majority political landscape of US supports Israel. You can’t even get a real presidential candidate who would oppose Israel because it would go against the party line. And yet you’re convinced it’s Biden you should be complaining about.
Seems like maybe getting people on board with a system change involves pointing out that it is an inexorable genocide machine. And if that’s what it takes to stop the genocides - and you seem to agree with me on this - then maybe we should, I don’t know, talk about it?
Which is why you should talk about all the politicians supporting the genocide and not just focus on one. Why aren’t you complaining about Trump? Why aren’t you complaining about Mitch McConnell or Chuck Schumer? Why aren’t you complaining about everyone in congress who voted to aid Israel? Why is it that you only complain about Biden?
I think if you think you need to do this to get someone elected, that’s actually counterproductive. Like maybe people associating Biden with genocide denial is going to make it harder for them to hold their nose and vote strategically like you want. It’s very hard to imagine the voter who would care about the genocide and yet be fooled into voting for Biden because people kept his genocide support on the down-low. Seems like you’re cutting off little pieces of your soul for the sake of a strategy that isn’t going to really work, unless you’ve got an A-to-B for me on how telling people to stop complaining about Biden’s genocide support helps him win election.
It’s not about getting Biden elected, it’s about making sure Trump does not get elected. That’s what your elections have always been about, voting against the guy you hate more. If you don’t vote for Biden you’re indirectly voting for Trump because the system boils down to you either get Biden or you get Trump. And it doesn’t matter who gets elected, America will still support genocide. This vote isn’t about genocide, it’s about whether American will get a fascist leader or not. You can sit on your high horse and talk about how people are cutting off pieces of their soul “for strategy”, but don’t be surprised when genocide continues and you get fascism shoved down your throat.
Your entire mindset here is “If they don’t agree with me they must be genocide deniers”.
I explained how you were doing genocide denial. You said that complaining about Biden is only “sowing division”. So that means that we shouldn’t criticise him for his genocide. Denying that a genocide should be criticised on its own merits is a form of genocide denial. Not all genocide denial is “this genocide didn’t happen”. In fact most of it isn’t. Most of it is politically motivated muddying of the waters, like what you did.
And yet you’re convinced it’s Biden you should be complaining about.
Because he is the president and the person in the greatest position of power to do something about it, and yet he refuses.
Why aren’t you complaining about Trump? Why aren’t you complaining about [whatabout whatabout whatabout]
Because none of those people is currently the US president.
Also, the original comment I replied to was about how people are just complaining that Biden is “old”. I was pointing out that this person was clearly deliberately avoiding the main criticism, which is of course the genocide.
It’s not about getting Biden elected, it’s about making sure Trump does not get elected.
That’s just the same thing said two ways. Most people who vote for Trump don’t like him much either, they just think they have to get Biden out. This is how the two-party system captures your political imagination and makes you police other people to tell them not to criticise your candidate. You’ve fallen for its trap.
And the idea that nothing can be changed without system change is actually false. Popular opposition has won basically all the victories worth noting in liberal democracies. They weren’t handed down from the legislature, they were fought for from the bottom up. But if people won’t stand up and full-throated condemn the one person most responsible for the current iteration of this genocide, then he won’t feel any pressure to do anything about it.
And if he doesn’t stop his genocide support - for real, not just a token “hey now jack stop that” - then I won’t be surprised when he loses to Trump, because he chose to support fascism overseas and thus willingly lost to fascism at home.
It just doesn’t seem like full genocide yet. Genocide light? You may be proved right but I just haven’t seen it. I’m not there though and I’m not smart. There’s a difference between lining everyone up and killing them and starving them while doing military stuff. You may say there isnt a difference, but those are different things to me. Please don’t get me wrong I think what is going on, seemingly for political reasons, is very wrong and bad. But genocide is about the worst so it’s hard be that bad.
Bring on the downvotes.
It just doesn’t seem like full genocide yet. Genocide light?
Oh dear, oh no, genocide is such a strong word for aerial bombing of civilians, denying them aid, targeting hospitals, sniping children, burying them in mass graves and killing more children than in all global conflicts over the last four years combined, all with the explicit goal of wiping out their people group and displacing them from their homeland. It’s just, oh no, I wouldn’t want to say mean words about the people doing all of that, because that might be unfair to the mass child slaughterers. There isn’t worse than this. This is genocide.
Holocaust deniers don’t call themselves “deniers” either, they start organisations like the “Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust”. That’s a real thing, you can look it up, it’s disgusting.
You just did genocide denial.
The tragic thing, though, is that if lemmy ever “takes off”, there’s nothing about it that will make it any more resistant to bots and trolls.
It’s kinda like back when Macs had no viruses, because nobody bothered.
I disagree. Lemmy is more resistant to bots because there’s no perverse incentive to boost user activity numbers to please investors and advertisers. Reddit for example doesn’t really care if most comments are fake on a post. It’s still interaction and it pumps numbers. Lemmy is built and run by us. It serves no other masters.
Given that users naturally self-sort into instances, your trolls are also more likely to congregate on instances and communities that can be blocked. I don’t want to name any names but I do block some instances from my view for a reason. The Russian bots congregate in places that are amenable to this, and the design of Lemmy encourages this self-sorting into places where you’re accepted.
The problem is still significant, but there are advantages to the fediverse.
I think it would be more likely bots would flood instances with posts at a level that was unrealistic for the small scale admins we currently have to combat.
There is a bit of a chain of trust, however. Instance fills with spam bots? Defed.
Spam bots start making their own instances? Go to whitelists.And as henfredemars says, because there is no financial incentive to grow the userbase, instances can slow things right down if the spam starts.
This’ll probably be an “agree to disagree,” but I think most websites do make good faith efforts to lower bot usage. Not because I trust them or anything, but because the perception that bot spam is out of control is bad for their bottom line. It drives away real users and high bot activity makes advertisers disinclined to trust that the high traffic is of any value.
nah, descentralisation is what help, i already read as article explaining exactly that, lemmy problem is that one of it first instances are full of trolls lol
Not only that, but it’s actually a much easier target because of the relatively sporadic moderation.
Compared to reddit, the Fediverse’s ability to moderate propaganda and advertising is puny and uncoordinated.
You forgot that lemmy.ml, lemmygrad, & hexbear exist.
Hexbear is… I’m just old I guess, I don’t understand. My instance is not defederated from them. Whenever I’m reading a post that originates from hexbear, I can always tell. Like it will just hit me and I will look at the source and yep, it’s hexbear.
But I don’t exactly understand why. I can’t see that they have any particular worldview, they just have a unique (and contrarian) way of expressing… all worldviews, seemingly. It feels like an inside joke that I don’t have enough information about to understand.
Doesn’t seem like bots, Russian or otherwise. Too vague. Not enough of a directed agenda. Is it just trolls? They seem to earnest to be trolls.
https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Hexbear
They’re basically trans communist genocide deniers, they’ve run troll ops which is why they’ve been mass de-federated.
See https://lemmy.world/post/2498330This article makes me think this is a tankie wiki, because literally everyone from that awful place is a tankie as far as I can tell.
It is a tankie wiki, but what a better way to expose their tankie nature than the tankies themself.
They’ve chosen a very confrontational path with the way their instance interacts with others, and as a result they get a lot of push back, which just makes them angrier. I suspect anyone trying to be reasonable on the instance gets accused of not being a true believer as well, so only the angriest remain.
Also, Boost for Lemmy allows you to block an entire instance, it’s pretty handy.
They’re kids that like confrontation. They don’t actually have any agenda other than “this hexbear user said to follow this!” And they jump on it. The next day could be a completely different stance on the subject.
Their community came over here long before all us old Redditors and it seems like they’ve cultivated their own culture and in-jokes and such. It can get confusing to pierce all the irony and sarcasm to figure out what they’re saying sometimes.
Hard disagree. I’m already spending less time here because the Kremlin and CCP propaganda ruins the experience for me. I don’t even consider recommending it to people I know for the same reason.
You can block Instances that like those, or switch to and instance where the admins do it on an instance level.
I still see their comments all the time and they still upvote their propaganda on other instances.
Eh just block the tankie instances. That problem goes away quickly!
i haven’t gotten into a single fight with a mod in nine months! it’s wild
Of course, one of the things about Lemmy is you can’t appeal a mod action (as far as I know)
JordanLund seems fairly level but once deleted one of my comments for “advocating violence” when I said Nixon and Kissinger should have been hanged for treason. They’re both already dead… And that’s the legal punishment for high treason. Which they did.
Tl;Dr you can’t get in a mod fight because you can’t fight back
As a Russian bot, I’m deeply offended
same here, i really hate all this neo-liberal drivel about how everything they don’t like is a CCP/Kremlin sponsored propoganda
SMCF is one of the comfort usernames that I’ve seen around ever since joining Lemmy
Same tbh, the name always gives me a smirk lol
Yes yes it does… shart … fucker… 420, oh! shark! Misread it.
Comfort =/= super disgusting and weird on purpose
You tell’em, Best Friend.
Very good +1000 social credit, OP
Huh
I think he is making a joke that OP is, in fact, the bot
Or maybe he’s just bullying OP for circlejerking so hard and giving himself a pat on the back as a Lemmy user
What?
Exactly. Some random snide implication of Chinese support, no specifics though
Lemmygrad, Hexbear, & Lemmy.ml.
wait, you guys read usernames?
I tag a lot of people with nicknames. Really makes them stand out a lot more, and when they do the type of content and patterns stick out a lot more.
What app are you using that lets you tag? I love Eternity but if I can get a similar experience with user tagging I’d be pretty excited to try it
Connect and Voyager both let me
Can you explain how to do this on Voyager? Can’t seem to figure it out.
I tag propaganda accounts all the time using Boost and Connect. Connect is FOSS, Boost was a Reddit app. You really do notice patterns.
or just block them?
I think the Fediverse will fail of regular people don’t push back against the propaganda. There’s no budget for countering misinformation.
Ooh! What’s mine?
cutest boy
Wow, thanks!
I read this comment several times and I still don’t understand it. Stand out for what? What content and patterns?
You can put your own nickname next to the names of other users, to catalog them/ mark trolls or whatever. That seems to be what Don is doing inbetween Rampages
I wasn’t even aware this was a thing
Tags are much more noticeable than user names. It tends to stick out more from the rest of the post and makes you notice who the poster is. After seeing them enough you tend to get a feel for the type of content they post about.
Yeah, there’s a lot of power posters here. PugJesus is an example from the opposite camp, calling out the anti-Democrat propaganda from the two OP mentioned.
