In the past few elections, voting feels more like a hostage situation than exercising my right to making a “choice”. This country is absolutely fucked if Trump is elected again.
Yes. That’s the end game of our type of voting system. You get two options and both suck.
We will get no progress until we get something like ranked choice voting.
Which we won’t get, because it doesn’t benefit the right people
If we can at least get 2 dems in a row in office we can begin to claw the Overton window back from the fascist side. It’d be a start at least
That’s far too naive. All that will do is entrench liberalism, which is extremely weak against fascism rising.
Easier said than done I know but if Trump wins my wife and I would strongly consider emigrating to another country. There’s only so much insanity one can take before needlessly going down with the ship. And if the calculus is that that my kids will have better prospects elsewhere, then so be it.
Don’t forget, Sanders is the only person Trump has ever admitted he’s afraid of.
Dems really underestimate what life is like for normal Americans. trump doesn’t get it either obviously, but at least he acknowledges shit is bad for them.
If Biden tries to run in the economy it’s going to hurt him because all the money is going to the wealthy.
Bernie acknowledges and actually has a plan to fix shit. And unlike trump points the finger at whose fault it is.
trump can’t compete with that.
But neoliberals don’t want to really address wealth inequality either.
Cannidates like Biden help fascism
Biden is the only thing standing between democracy and fascism in the US. Hate it all you want,but that is the reality at the moment.
Biden isn’t standing between anything…he’s a speed bump. We still lost our reproductive rights, Trump’s tax cuts are still in place, we are still sending money to Israel and not the Ukraine.
Biden sucks. Don’t vote for Trump…but god it’s fucking depressing that the only alternative is a guy with Alzheimer’s and a meme army for political clout.
You lost your reproductive rights because a bunch of Sanders bros decided they’d rather let Trump win than vote for Hillary.
Am I the only one that remembers the DNC was sued over that…and Sanders won?
I’m afraid to ask what you think a vote for Trump helps.
Please stop being so dramatic, you shouldn’t be afraid to talk to other people about their political opinions.
It’s not fear, it’s that no one wants to read the same half assed logic that boils down to actively supporting efforts of conservatives to put Trump back in power. This shit strategy is getting old.
The winner of the 2024 general election for POTUS will be Donald Trump or Joe Biden. In a FPTP system any eligible vote not cast for Joe Biden is supporting Donald Trump, a member of the minority party. This is math. You are going to support one of these candidates if you’re eligible to vote. It is mathematically impossible to sit out and not have influence.
Not a single one of the commenters trying to depress Democratic votes has provided a single alternative argument to these facts. It’s not a real argument. It’s just trying to create apathy so conservatives can gain more power.
You can talk about Democratic principles all day long, voting is a strategic play. And if you were actually trying to defend Democratic principles you would take the action that results in the least harm, which is Joe Biden, not Donald Trump.
You are discussing strategy to avoid the most harm. Harm avoidance. That’s fear. You are literally describing fear without using the word fear and acting like I was the one misunderstanding. You need to understand that you are acting on fear. It’s ridiculous, and I was right to point it out.
You mentioned my other comment in passing like it meant nothing to you, then say that no one hear has given any real arguments? Maybe you just need to read in better faith. You clearly don’t have any respect for my concerns with Biden if your comment demonstrates a complete unwillingness to even entertain the thought.
Canadian btw, you don’t need to convince of anything to do with voting strategy anyway. Wasted energy. I just think you guys are being really silly and can’t see the forest from the trees. You could probably use third party observers to get your heads on straight.
Zero interest in trying to convince you of anything. I just want everyone else to understand that listening to you acts against their own interests. Either you don’t understand how our electoral system works, or you’re misleading people to try and put your thumb on the scale in support of some pretty horrible people.
Waiting anytime for an explanation of how Trump getting elected benefits the situation in Gaza btw. Or do we not care about that now because that would be acting out of fear?
Well, it’s a good thing you’re not dramatic at all…
Take with a grain of salt, considering Putin says Biden is better for him than Trump. While I don’t necessarily agree with the argument, Republicans (and centrist dems) certainly believe Sanders would’ve been an easy target for smear campaigns.
Sanders is one of the only politicians unworthy of the guillotine.
Bernie is a Genocide defender and wants to keep funding israel even now.
Yes he wants to continue the 3 billion per year and does not want to sanction israel.
These are Bernies’s own words he said in the video I linked above.
If trump wins and America can’t defeat his senile version of fascism, then it’s already on the death bed waiting for the next republican to take power…
trump is the best authoritarian we’re going to get, he’s easy mode, the republicans will get someone worse, someone who has the ability to think beyond his next shit.
It’s not going to get better only worse…
how were republicans before trump? how was Bush? (i literally have no idea because I was 7 at the time)
Bush was far worse than Trump.
lol
Bush started multiple wars and killed millions of people by lying about WMD’s and blamed Iraq for doing 9/11 which was done by Afghanistan but actually by Saudis. And Bush passed many spying acts and abolished rights.
Trump bombed Suleimani and withdrew from Afghanistan. That’s it for foreign policy.
Bush was infinitely more worse than Trump. Trump just looked really dumb
Didn’t know Bush tried to overthrow the government after he lost
Tried? Bush did that.
MUST WATCH: Bernie Sanders - Why People Vote For Trump
He’s 100% right on this.
Man, it’s crazy how similar that sounds to exactly what Biden has been saying all along:
And I’ve said many times before: I believe we’re at an inflection point in this country — one of those moments where the decisions we’re about to make can change — literally change the trajectory of our nation for years and possibly decades to come.
Each inflection point in this nation’s history represents a fundamental choice. I believe that America, at this moment, is facing such a choice. And the choice is this: Are we going to continue with an economy where the overwhelming share of the benefits go to big corporations and the very wealthy? Or are we going to take this moment right now to set this country on a new path — one that invests in this nation; creates real, sustained economic growth; and that benefits everyone, including working people and middle-class folks?
That’s something we haven’t realized in this country for decades.
Here’s the simple truth. For a long time, this economy has worked great for those at the very top, while ordinary, hardworking Americans — the people who built this country — have been basically cut out of the deal.
And I’ve said this from the time I announced I was going to run: I believe this is a moment of potentially great change. This is our moment to deal working people back into the economy. This is our moment to prove to the American people that their government works for them, not just for the big corporations and those at the very top.
Yet an off-the-cuff remark about asking wealthy people to accept slightly higher taxes is somehow all his breathless detractors want to pretend has ever existed.
Actions speak louder than words. Biden locked in Trump’s $2T tax cuts for the rich and corporations, bringing the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%. Never mind the open loopholes they exploit to pay virtually nothing anyway. Then, Biden claims he wants to bump up the corporate tax rate to 28%, but can’t, for “reasons.”
What is this halfway corpo-fascist stance? How are we going to pay for that?! By cutting social programs meant to support the working class. Biden is full of shit on this issue, open your eyes.
Biden locked in Trump’s $2T tax cuts for the rich and corporations, bringing the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%.
Nuance glossed over for the sake of partisan shit-flinging:
Then, Biden claims he wants to bump up the corporate tax rate to 28%, but can’t, for “reasons.”
Yes, reasons. Amazing how Bernie would have had to deal with exactly those same “reasons”, isn’t it?
Biden is full of shit on this issue, open your eyes.
Let me be clear - Bernie isn’t in office right now. If he were, he’d have likely come up with some way to deal with these two.
It’s really too bad that Mr Biden couldn’t arrange an audience with President Manchin during this time to figure something out, since Manchin is calling all the shots. At least they got some things accomplished together. Any and all applicable environmental regs be damned.
he’d have likely come up with some way to deal with these two
And everyone would get a pony.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
- they are = they’re
- they’re too busy
deleted by creator
God you’re insufferable.
Bernie is right about why people vote for Trump, he’s wrong that it will be the end of democracy. America has never had a democracy, it’s had an electoral college with gerrymandering and 2 senators per state.
You know perfectly well why he means. US democracy is shitty as it is, but it can become a lot LOT worse, and Trump will make sure that happens
How horrible is your life bro?
It’s quite nice, actually, thanks! How about yours?
So, which country with 300 Million people is doing it the right way? China? India? Do tell…do tell!
Is there a real plan to shore up our “democracy” if the Democrats win this election? What is Biden going to do next term that he didn’t do this term?
I feel like people are so fixated on Trump that they can’t see past him. Trump is a giant, clown-shaped piece of shit-- absolutely. How does the opposing party fail at politics so hard that someone like Trump ever even had a shot?
I feel like people are so fixated on Trump that they can’t see past him.
Well yeah, because if he wins there won’t be anything past him for much of the country.
OK? What if Biden wins, is my question. Is the Democrat value-proposition nothing more than “periodic intervals of slightly slower slide into total fascism”?
Yes, that’s correct. Slower slide means more of a chance to fix it.
No there is a lesser chance. The worse the conditions get for the more support fascism gets.
If Trump does not win this election, an even worse person will win the next one
Just ask about DC statehood and the Dems’ inability to enfranchise over a million US citizens.
As soon as you scratch this problem, you discover how shallow and unserious the party is in “protecting democracy”.
I agree, I’m just trying to get others to see how little “resistance” the Dems pose to the more naked fascism of the Repubs.
I think the case of DC Statehood is an obvious example. Whether we’re talking about Kennedy, Clinton, or Obama, we’re talking about a party that’s deliberately disenfranchised over a million people on their watch.
Because Trump is great for me fundraising and keeping party bigwigs at the trough
Funny how many comments just went poof! Gone! So this place is basically /r/politics now? Mods smoking out every opinion they don’t like?
Funny thing is, the deleted comments were from liberals, not raging conservatives spewing bile and lies. Must not have passed the purity test.
Or maybe the mods are actually moderating by cutting out the off-topic arguments and BS threads that don’t contribute anything to the overall discourse of the discussion.
I can imagine most of the comments were 14yo’s and trolls saying GeNoCiDe JoE hUrRrR
My thoughts exactly. Why is it that these “politics” sites just end up going completely Left? Is this “politics” or “Democrat Politics?” I get confused… apparently, the Right isn’t allowed to have an opinion any where anymore…
Pray tell, these opinions of yours that you’re afraid of sharing publicly?
I think there should be limits and restrictions on social programs. I believe in tough on crime, funding more police, not less. I believe that we should be allowed to question the billions being sent to Ukraine, without being told we’re traitors and spineless. The Republicans are the ones trying to limit the amount of money we send all over the world, and for some reason, this makes them the party of the “bad guys.” I’m against many ultra liberal views, like allowing petty theft to go unpunished, allowing the homeless crisis to grow in California because apparently, it’s “not their fault.”
Oh I got it. You’re a moron who can’t bother to rub his last two braincells together.
Spotted the tolerant liberal!
Does the right still have anything left to say that isn’t hate speech? The entire conservative economic schtick has failed the reality test so badly that most conservatives don’t even want to talk about it anymore. It’s all border wall nonsense, election denial, and reactionary isolationism now, and that’s the saner half of conservatism.
Yes. I’m Mexican American, family came here from Mexico, legally in the 50’s. Worked hard, and established a great life. We were raised in a strict Catholic household, so, ideally, my family always votes Republican. This doesn’t make us horrible people. We simply believe in different things than Liberals/Democrats. However, I’m also a firm believer in Gay Rights, Abortion, and social programs. But, I think there needs to be limits, rules, and restrictions on a lot of that stuff. That’s where most of my political beliefs start to lean more Right. Sounds like you’re just profiling based on what you read on Reddit and Lemmy. That’s like me saying all Democrats and Liberals are anti-gun, anti-religion, and hate white people We know that’s not true.
We were raised in a strict Catholic household, so, ideally, my family always votes Republican.
Political parties are not like sports teams and you aren’t required to vote for a particular party just because you were born into it. Anyways, there is no correlation between being Catholic and voting for Republicans. Also, Biden is Catholic, and Trump is not - just in case you think that’s relevant.
This doesn’t make us horrible people.
I never said anything about you being horrible. My comments were directed at the current state of Republican policy and rhetoric, not the personal character of Republican voters.
I’m also a firm believer in Gay Rights, Abortion, and social programs.
Your Pope is also a firm believer in social programs. He doesn’t support Gay Rights and Abortion, but he takes a very different stance on them than Republicans.
But, I think there needs to be limits, rules, and restrictions on a lot of that stuff.
So do Democrats. I’ve noticed this tendency for people on the right to make these kinds of sweeping statements that sound like fundamental policy positions but are really so meaningless that anybody could say they support them. “I believe in small government.” “I am against excessive regulation.” etc. No real point there, I just find it interesting.
The biggest curtailment of the welfare state in the least 100 years came from the Clinton administration. Obama’s biggest safety net accomplishment was Obamacare, which was originally a plan from the extremely right wing Heritage Foundation.
You’re just profiling based on what you read on Reddit and Lemmy.
No, I’m really not. Again, my comments were on the current state of Republican policy and rhetoric, so “profiling” doesn’t come into it. This goes back to my point about sports teams. My observations are also based on what I see coming out of Republican politicians and media figures. Conservatives on Lemmy, and especially Reddit tend to keep largely to their own insulated communities, and I don’t often visit.
lmao schizophrenic
They’ve been saying this every election. This line is the norm now. There never was much of a democracy.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that “this line” became normal at the same time the GOP has been enacting antidemocratic legislation and putting forward antidemocratic candidates.
at the same time the GOP has been enacting antidemocratic legislation
1940: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnice_P._Clement
1964: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Eye_(United_States)
1981: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballot_Security_Task_Force
From 1838 to Present: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_disenfranchisement_in_Florida
As his position on the Israel-Gaza war threatens to upset his support
In the bi-line. I don’t think these people know who Bernies supporters are.
Bernie wants to continue to support israel.
And Bernie refuses to acknowledge israel commits Genocide.
His words ring hollow.
Watch this pathetic man dance around the subject of a Genocide on two million people
I like the insinuation that the US is an actual “democracy” lmao
i’d say it’s largely, tho not completely, a de facto oligarchy now.
It never was, or was ever meant to be, an actual “democracy”. Imperial core countries’ political systems only serve to protect capital and imperialism, with a thin veneer of “democracy” to discourage uprising and two parties to divide the working class.
If we do an election and the wrong candidate wins, the democracy goes away.
So you can’t vote for the wrong candidate.
And also, you can’t vote for a third-party candidate.
And also, you can’t abstain from voting.
So, really, you have exactly one choice that you’re allowed to make.
Democracy!
Also, unless you live in a specific set of states, your vote is effectively meaningless!
There’s downticket stuff and that shouldn’t be ignored.
At the same time, we get meager media coverage of the downticket races so its very difficult to discern who is good and who sucks unless you’ve got an in-group to turn to. I like to pretend I’m active in Dem circles, but I’ll be damned if I know who to vote for on my state senate seat much less all the judiciary races. The one guy I liked to primary out the loathsome Liz Fletcher turned out to be a serial sexual harasser.
But yeah, pretending my vote in Texas will swing the national election is absurd. And then trying to tie that national election vote back to “Oh no, democracy is ending if you don’t vote for my guy!” is even fucking dumber.
And also, you can’t abstain from voting.
[Citation required.]
We could actually improve our democracy by making voting mandatory.
We’d get a better representation of how all of the voting-age population feels.
Then maybe we can get politicians that support more thorough voting system reform.
We could actually improve our democracy by making voting mandatory.
Brazil has mandatory voting, and its just as rife with corruption and fascism as anywhere else. I like the idea of compulsory enfranchisment simply because it operates as a counterweight to disenfranchisement. A state with a legal duty to vote is one with a legal obligation to fully implement elections infrastructure (at least, in theory).
But when it comes to the quality of candidates? Well… Bolsonaro was not a paragon of civic virtue.
