Following up my discussion on [https://lemmy.world/post/24254749](0080 War in the Pocket), I’ve recently watched 08th MS Team and the Witch from Mercury, both for the first time in anticipation of the new Gquuuuuuuux Gundam series.
Overall, I quite liked it.
It wasn’t perfect and the story was a bit hit-or-miss for me personally. I also felt it occasionally got a bit lost in the sauce of the whole meaningless corporate school battles thing. But at it’s best the drama was really engaging and good.
The Good
Suletta and Miorine were great characters that were really well acted. I think a lot of my positive feelings for this show rely on the fact that Suletta was just a very likeable and relatable character, a true underdog who got brutally fucking bullied and manipulated, and definitely went through some shit, but ultimately tried hard and elevated herself. Where this show really shines above all else is the drama around these two characters in particular.
The Bad
I think the plot could have been more effective and meaningful had it been a little bit simpler.
In the first half of the show I felt like Prospera had a strong and simple motivation for what she was doing–revenge. But over the second half she turned into a weird overly complicated Gendo Ikari facsimile. I liked the somewhat Armored Core nature of a solar system governed by corporate oligarchy (and it’s a good reflection of the times we live in), but multiple times throughout the series I found myself wondering who people and corporate names were referring too.
Complexity doesn’t always equate to depth, and I feel like this story could have been more effective to me if it had been simpler. Suletta works well because her motivation is simple; to be accepted and loved by family and friends, and to stop needless killing.
The UGLY
Dystopian corporate oligarchy is bad… or is it good?
At the start of this series I was really excited to see a modern anime story dare to be critical of the mega corporate Japan and Earth that exist today, and the oligarchs, investment and business politics that govern almost every aspect of our lives. After all, this series starts off with the idea that corporate dynasties are using kids to essentially demonstrate the power of weapons in order to gain shareholder value and conglomerate clout. Surely these kids would eventually realize that all of this company bullshit was not only against their personal interests, but also against the interests of everyone in the solar system, right?
Unfortunately by the end I lost any sense that there was an overarching message. The premise was interesting and good, but I feel like this series completely backed away from saying much about the world they lived in at all. We see characters like Guel learn and grow from his experiences on Earth and the conflicts within his family, only to at the end revert into the same system that tore his life apart for no reason.
I won’t spoil the ending, but I felt that the show never really puts its foot down on whether the corporate oligarchy that they all live under is BAD or GOOD for society, and whether it’s worth saving or not?
I think there’s a simpler and better version of this story that could have existed, in which Prospera uses Suletta and Ariel to usurp the corporate structure of the Benerit Group (purely in the name of revenge), only to throw the entire solar system into war and chaos as the Earthians rise up against a weakened Spacian oligarchy.
But with all that said, I did like the show. Mainly because I liked Suletta, Miorine and the drama that unfolded around them. It’s certainly an entry that’s worthy of the other Gundam series that I’ve checked out so far.
I agree that this show got too complex for its own good. I’ve seen a lot of speculation that maybe it was originally intended to have more episodes and that’s why the second season felt so rushed.
As an aside, The Witch From Mercury has some of the best budget model kits Bandai has ever made. Something like the High Grade Aerial kit, which can be found for <$20 USD, would be a great choice if someone wanted to give building gunpla a try. If there’s another suit you liked more, well, pretty much all of the high grade Witch From Mercury kits are both affordable and great.
Cool news about the Gunpla. I’ve never made a model but I’m getting dangerously close to getting into it after watching all of this Gundam stuff recently. I wonder how the GQuuuuuuuuuux models are going to be?
So far I think they’ve only announced a model for the GQuuuuuux itself, though others will doubtless follow. A few youtubers have gotten their hands on the kit, and impressions seem mostly positive. It looks like it’ll have great articulation, but some of the finer details will be achieved with stickers rather than increasing the number of plastic pieces. That isn’t unusual, and the stickers are decently nice so it’s not a huge deal, but it’s nice to not need to bother with them. Of course you can paint those parts instead, but there are plenty of people who won’t want to do that.
It’s actually been out in Japan for a few days now, so hopefully we’ll get some English reviews soon.
On one hand, it’s a very affordable hobby. $20-30 for a well made kit is an absolute steal in the modeling realm, and puts most actions figures in that price range to shame.
On the other, it’s a very expensive hobby… there’s just… so… much. If you’re someone who leans towards completionnaire’s disease, consider this your warning lol.
But it really does bring another level of appreciation and immersion to the shows. The newer kits especially let you inspect all the little details that just flash by on the screen. Gunpla is a big part of why Gundam both took off and persisted this long. It’s not required, but it adds so much.
The other day I stumbled upon this 3 year old Tested video where they put together a “Perfect Grade” Gundam and they were really impressed by the intricate level of design and engineering that went into it, and I have to say I was too.
To see all of the moving parts underneath the outer armor/shell and the engineering involved to making it all work (not to mention have it stand up even under pretty extreme poses) was damn impressive. At this point I’m more worried about clutter than anything I think. lol
That kit is the pinnacle of Bandai engineering… for now. They’re eventually going to top it because that’s what they do. It’s really amazing how much they’ve innovated over the years.
I’m going to try and talk around spoilers, but if anyone hasn’t seen it and is interested, just watch. It’s relatively short and well worth it.
I’m going to echo just about everyone else and say the pacing bombed out in the second half. Some sub arcs seemed to drag along. As the end got closer and so many threads were still dangling, I thought for sure it was going to get another season. And deserved one, because the setting and characters were exquisitely crafted. But then everything happened all at once and we got a pretty little bow to try and hide those loose ends.
I really enjoyed Prospera as a character. And reviled her as a person while still retaining some forms of empathy. That’s a pretty big win IMO.
Agreed that they dropped the ball on the meta theming. On one hand, it’s a Gundam staple to “save the world” while not much materially changes. On the other, it’s very much relevant to the present day, and unsatisfying to leave things mostly as they were.
The mech designs were hit and miss for me. Which should not come as a surprise, since they hired different mechanical designers for each of the corpos. I really appreciate this kind of attention to detail.
Speaking of details, they are everywhere, and they build on one another. Things like using cinematography to mirror an earlier scene, then later doing the same but with a different perspective to highlight the changes in the characters. The symbolism is rampant, some obvious, some subtle. This wasn’t a Tomino story, but it builds on one of his tenets: show, don’t tell. Environmental storytelling. I have a friend that really only engages with Gundam as “second screen” material while she’s doing something else. Unsurprisingly, she’s ambivalent about most of it and actively hostile towards WfM.
Overall I loved the idea, got very immersed in the setting and characters, and was a little disappointed when the pacing fell off. Still an easy recommend.
Btw, @wjs018@ani.social was kind enough to open up !gundam@ani.social for us. And @Endmaker@ani.social volunteered to mod. So feel free to hop on over there and join us! 👊
I really enjoyed Prospera as a character. And reviled her as a person while still retaining some forms of empathy. That’s a pretty big win IMO.
MAJOR ENDING SPOILERS (Mobile Suit Gundam: Witch from Mercury)
First half Prospera was super engaging as her motivation seemed to be to avenge her family and take down the corporations and power structure that lead to them being needlessly murdered during the prologue. She was undoubtedly manipulating Suletta (and in one of her best scenes Miorine calls her out for it, only for Prospera to point out the hypocrisy of that), but it felt like she was infiltrating the system and masterminding the demise of the Benerit Group. I really figured she would be like Char in the original MSG 0079, in the sense that she wasn’t going to be so much of a villain.
Instead she ended up becoming something like Gendo Ikari from Neon Genesis Evagelion with the Data Storm as her Human Instrumentality Project, all of this at the expense of her relationship to Suletta. But then at the end we got something of a “happy ending” where all of the kids are CEOs (or rather, oligarchs), the people of Earth are still subjugated (but I guess at least being “listened to”…), and Prospera is now having a picnic with Suletta and her keychain sister, despite the fact that she just wiped out an entire fleet and almost had both her daughters kill each other. Her arc didn’t really stick for me.
The thing about being Gendo Ikari is that there’s really no way to repair the relationships that you’ve destroyed in order to achieve your selfish goals. Prospera went down that route, but somehow everything turned out OK in the end in her toxic relationship to Suletta.
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Speaking of details, they are everywhere, and they build on one another. Things like using cinematography to mirror an earlier scene, then later doing the same but with a different perspective to highlight the changes in the characters. The symbolism is rampant, some obvious, some subtle. This wasn’t a Tomino story, but it builds on one of his tenets: show, don’t tell. Environmental storytelling. I have a friend that really only engages with Gundam as “second screen” material while she’s doing something else. Unsurprisingly, she’s ambivalent about most of it and actively hostile towards WfM.
Overall I loved the idea, got very immersed in the setting and characters, and was a little disappointed when the pacing fell off. Still an easy recommend.
For sure, the show really looked great and was effective at telling the story. The drama and symbolism were truly great at times. When it hit, it hit. Some of the more intimate scenes with Suletta dealing with shit on her own were really genuinely touching and beautiful.
I also recommend checking it out and think it’s a worthy series. :)
Btw, @wjs018@ani.social was kind enough to open up !gundam@ani.social for us. And @Endmaker@ani.social volunteered to mod. So feel free to hop on over there and join us! 👊
I’m in! Still pretty new to Gundam but I’m quickly getting up to speed in anticipation of Gquuuuuux, having just watched 0079, War in the Pocket, 08th MS Team and Witch from Mercury. About 10 episodes into Zeta right now and loving it so far.
Prospera is now having a picnic with Suletta and her keychain sister, despite the fact that she just wiped out an entire fleet and almost had both her daughters kill each other
That felt weird to me too. What is Prospera doing in anything but a prison? And she even still has a relationship with her daughters? At least let the rich face consequences in my fantasies!
Prospera
The picnic ending really felt tacked on. I mean, yeah, it’s great that she saw the error of her ways and was forgiven etc. Good vibes, feel-good ending, yadda yadda. That and Sunrise really REALLY hedging bets on SuleMio. They spent the whole series developing a complex same-sex relationship and then chickened out on “did they actually get married.” I’m half-remembering conflicting tweets from official sources, along with considerations taken for the time slot it was airing (they had already taken flak for the violent end of cour 1). Sigh.
The second half Gendo swerve was pretty well done, I thought. Her motivations were hidden from the beginning. We only got bits and pieces. As it was airing, there was a LOT of speculation about whether Suletta and Eri were the same person. The show specifically left dates out of most of the show, and when… sigh I’m horrible with names, begins with a B, the older researcher from the prologue lab/company (again, I’m awful with names). When she dropped the “revenge from 21 years ago” line, shit blew up. “Maybe Eri was in stasis.” “Is Suletta made of Gund prosthetics?” But Eri being either dead or in the Aerial (Eri-Lfrith) was something a lot of people didn’t want to believe. It all seems obvious in hindsight but this was a huge point of contention.
They left ALL of the breadcrumbs out in plain sight, but they left the viewer to connect the dots (or not). And every time a dot was explicitly connected, another was revealed.
I think the back half suffered from pacing and productional indecision. We needed more time to flesh out the story. Instead we got periods of drag followed by boom boom boom reveals. Prospera went from:
- obvious revenge arc
- revenge using her daughter as a pawn
- revenge using her brainwashed daughter as a disposable pawn
- uhhhh why is she working with Delling
- SHE KILLED HOW MANY CLONES FOR REVENGE?!?!?
- pawn disposed of
- she didn’t actually kill any of them, but the only way to keep them alive was to embed them in Gund
- ready for instrumentality to let her daughters live freely (and honestly, fuck all them corpo motherfuckers but that’s a lot of innocent people)
- newly self-actualized pawn saves the day with the power of love and giant robots
The outline is solid, and the first cour was nearly flawless. Then the pacing fell apart and this was one of the many victims.
Iron Blooded Orphans spoilers seriously do not click if you haven't seen it
As much as the ending of WfM felt unresolved with the status quo basically unchanged, it doesn’t hold a candle to IBO’s stomach-churning denouement. Technically, I guess it’s a “happy” ending. Things improved for some of the marginalized groups, the power structure got reformed, and the war ended. But holy fuck the price paid. And the chosen elite got to re-solidify power anyway. It all feels WRONG. But it’s a fairly accurate portrayal of how things work out IRL. Doesn’t mean I have to like it.
opinionated statements
Julia was an uninteresting character not worthy of the epilogue spotlight.
I ride with Ride.
:::
Apologies if I’m not particularly coherent. I am passionate but it is late and I’m sick.
The outro was banging
I’m not really a gundam fan, or a fan of space operas in general, but I was recommended this when it first started and I really enjoyed the first half. I felt like the corporate setting gave a suitable dystopian feel for the meaty drama about kids dealing with the sins of their parents, and I was fully on board. But, somewhere in the second half I feel like it all got a bit lost. The plot became more complicated and the themes got a bit muddled, and I sort of stopped engaging with anything except the emotional threads of the characters, who continued to be very well written. Overall, even though it was enjoyable, it felt like it had a lot of wasted potential.
And I agree, not woke enough: not anti-capitalist enough and not gay enough. (But, to be fair, I’d say that about most things, lol)
Yeah, that’s exactly how I feel.
Suletta’s and Miorine’s likability was the only thing that kept me on board until the end, but ultimately it felt like a show that walked right up to the edge of saying something meaningful about modern society (be it corporate capitalism, LGBTQ issues, women’s issues, war, etc.) but then stepped back for no reason.
It’s been awhile, but from what i remember they definitely expected to have more episodes to tell the full story that they just didn’t get.
