In many parts of Europe, it’s common for workers to take off weeks at a time, especially during the summer. Envious Americans say it’s time for the U.S. to follow suit.
Some 66% of U.S. workers say companies should adopt extended vacation policies, like a month off in August, in their workplaces, according to a Morning Consult survey of 1,047 U.S. adults.
Approximately 50% of voters will vote for a political party that views any such reform as communism.
It’s actually quite a bit less than 50%, but their votes have a bigger impact because of a broken system.
sure, but effectively they deadlock the system and prevent any structural reform. Also, national polling currently has close to 50% of the voting population supporting a trump second term. We can’t even get the Democratic Party to support universal public healthcare. The ideological delusion, the willingness of the people to support a system that makes their lives anxious and miserable, cuts across both political parties as well as the general population.
We’re heading through a dry county, and for political reasons it’s a very long, narrow county. So I cannot serve alcohol until we’re through.
-King of the Hill
So much this. We have an antiquated and ridiculous system that gives the regressives far, far too much of a voice.
Socialism is a very nice son of rationalism. It is time for a review
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That’s because politicians are so far separated from the average American. Some of them are so old and senile and have been in power so long, they don’t even realize how bad it is for the average American, and on top of that, because they don’t think it’s as bad as it is, they don’t care.
Money talks and in this case money specifically asks not to implement any of this. Overworked, stressed out workers that are afraid to lose their healthcare are easier to control.
We don’t have these things because 50% of the population is dumb as bricks and is voting against their own interest.
It’s not even 50% tits our fucked up districts, and also it’s gotten like this because of legislation to defund education. But younger voters are becoming more informed, change can happen. It will take effort and time though.
Hey man if there’s one thing the defunded schools taught me, it’s that America is the greatest country in the universe.
So I stood up and told that teaching lady, “the only letters I need to know are U, S, and A!”
It’s the money in politics. Doesn’t matter how young or old the politicians are.
I’d say it depends but the older ones are more likely to be influenced by money
I have always wished that requiring congressmen work a minimum wage job in their district that they have to look for and apply to like the rest of us while out of session would do anything. Deal with some Karens to humble them properly.
No. It’s because the constitution effective abolishes democracy, by ensuring a two-party system.
In the US democracy is limited to one coin toss worth of decision making once every four years. Add to that that their first-to-the-post system eliminates all election power to non-swing-states, that means ~40 of the states have no democratic input at all, and the rest has up to 15 bit worth of democratic input over their whole life time.
Thus politicians have nothing to fear at all. They mess up, who cares? It’s gonna be their turn after the next term limit anyway.
The Constitution doesn’t employ a 2 party system and actually our founding fathers were against it. It has been put in place since then. I do think the electoral college system does cause issues though. We need a ranked choice system or something else where all votes have some value.
The overwhelming majority of working class adults want these things, but also the overwhelming majority of working class adults also work for large corporations who do not want these things (because it costs them money/profits). Guess who has more money to buy off politicians? Walmart/Amazon/Target would work together to never let these beneficial policies go through congress. It would be worth it to them to spend literal billions to prevent it, because it would cost them billions in the long run.
The sad reality is we don’t really live in a democracy. It’s an oligarchy that allows us to think we are in control.
I have never understood why Americans doesn’t have trade union?
Like in Denmark we have trade unions where a working area is united like the health care area, have “FOA” there is trading “time off” payment and so on, for all in this area.?
There are trade unions in the USA but the cultural difference compared to in a Scandinavian country is very striking, both in terms of American vs Scandinavians unions themselves but also their support. It would surprise many Scandinavians to learn that many Americans don’t even want trade unions because it’s for example commonly seen as that they interfere with career paths, promoting seniority at the cost of new blood or keep the wages low because individual wages can be affected.
I think the culture collision here is that the whole idea behind unions in Scandinavia is to offer a stronger collective voice and bargaining actor to increase wages and other subjects that improves the standards and quality of life / motivation of their employees so that the relationship between the work place and the individual is less asymmetrical.
But it’s been a long journey and it still is even if unionizing in USA has seen an uptick in debates lately, because USA has a radical and capitalistic history where there are loud and influential voices that even asking for basic rights on a job can be seen as “greed” and the company looks for someone being less of a bother and not asking these questions instead. All due to weak unions, of course. Otherwise the company would of course lose too much in employee skills by excluding everyone having these demands (and already being union members) like the situation here in Scandinavia where this by consequence is simply not an option.
This is at least my two cents of this entire situation from the “outside” also in Europe, please correct me if I’m wrong…
98% of the people who vote are voting for repressive corporate culture.
The people who don’t vote can’t afford to miss a day of work, and even if they did, they know the people they have to choose from won’t do anything to change it.
Therefore these polls are meaningless.
We have to have voting mail in and at the booths as federally mandated. Washington State and quite a few others do this and we get a pamphlet that lists each candidate, their website, a pic and their policies. This should be the bare minimum for every state.
Oregon passed a minimum 40 hours of sick leave on top of vacation. That’s what vote by mail and ballot measures get you.
Hawaii has had socialized universal healthcare for like 50 years.
They had universal healthcare in Hawaii? Where dd it go? I’ve never heard of that.
Per Google AI:
Hawaii is the only state to have implemented near-universal health insurance. The Hawaii Prepaid Health Care Act, enacted in 1974, requires most employers to offer employees group health insurance. Hawaii does not have a specific law requiring individuals to have health insurance coverage.
Hawaii is ranked #1 in the country for overall health and public health. According to U.S. News & World Report, Hawaii is the top state for healthcare. The ranking is based on 71 metrics across eight categories, including healthcare, education, and economy.
The average health insurance cost in Hawaii is $421 per month for a 40-year-old across all plan tiers. The cheapest Silver health plan in every county in Hawaii is KP HI Silver 4000/45 from Kaiser Permanente. Individuals can get insurance directly from HMSA or through the federal health insurance marketplace at HealthCare.gov. Depending on your financial situation, you may be eligible for financial help, which is only available through the federal marketplace.
– My family over there tells me it’s great.
That’s because Americans have no say in these issues. They’re brainwashed (well, 1/2 is) to think those things are sOciAliSm, which apparently is bad despite many voters having socialized medicine that they love. It’s the American way, convincing people that what they want is not in their best interest.
I would say th other half is brainwashed too, your 2 party system sucks. Things won’t get better if you have no choice in elections
There is no party of red and party of blue. It’s all a single party of green. And it’s not named after the color of trees.
Edit: Green is the color of money.
the color of …grass?
Why green?
Land of the free, amirite?
Land of the free…to be manipulated.
The think tanks funded by rich people saying “They want to take away your guns/cows/statues etc” and “unions suck” are better at this than we are.
We can want all we want, but a whole pile of the media is owned by the 1% and what they want is the status quo.
Conservatism is literally, don’t change anything.
Conservatism is literally, don’t change anything.
Not true. They also like regression.
Make America like the 1950s.
I’ll take the higher tax rates on the highest brackets from the 1950s, but I’d rather do without the racism.
MAke America Tax the Rich Again.
The only way to vote for these issues is to vote to form a union.
Racism and bigotry are a hell of a drug.
Because the American Oligarchy do nothing to actually improve the lives of the average person and deflect, blame, and fear monger against the other party to distract from their own corruption. It’s both sides of the political spectrum in this country and it’s getting pretty old.
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everyone wants it when you survey people that want it
(not that i disagree)
51% support slower employee response time outside of work hours
Uh, what? That does not compute. Either it’s work, or it is not work (and I don’t respond to anything, and don’t get contacted in the first place)
If you’re a skilled salaried worker the law doesn’t really consider you to have work hours. Furthermore, you aren’t required to be compensated for time you are on-call unless you are required to physically be present.
US labor laws are truly horrifying if you start asking yourself a few “what-ifs.” The entire system is built on good faith.
“Salaried worker” over here means just that you’re being paid for fixed, regular working hours - typically something like 37.5 or 40 hours per week. Anything on top of that is overtime, which needs to be compensated either in time off, or paid out.
On call rules also vary a lot by country, but typical it’s something like being paid 20-25% of your regular hourly wage while on call, with overtime pay when you’re taking a call.
I’ll never forget at my first job once I moved to Europe, boss reminded me to take my vacation days. “Yeah, I’m hourly, not salary, what vacation days?”
Yes, holiday pay/leave is accrued for casual hourly workers too, by law.
That said, when I switched to salary, off in lieu is a sticky loophole, not sure if it was legal but one place would wipe any leftover OIL on 31 Dec with no payout, so it was on you to take it, which wasn’t always possible (pay and time off is better, but work/life balance can be just as F-ed in Europe).
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Yes, holidays can, by law, be reset on Jan 1st.
However, the company needs to have reminded you that it will, and also allow you to actually take the time off.
If you have 30 days on December 1st, then they need to allow you to either take the days forward into the year or take it in December.
We have salary exempt and salary non-exempt in the US. The exempt part being overtime pay.
Salary exempt would be jobs like managers who may have to work outside of normal hours to ensure continuity of the business. Such as making arrangements for sick workers.calling out.
Salary non-exempt are for positions in which they are paid a set work week but their function does not have unplanned work outside of their normal hours. So things like HR or accounting may be paid salary, but there really is no reason for something to come up outside of their work day. These people should be clocking in and out or at least capturing their time in some manner, because if they do end up working greater than 40 hours a week they are entitled to overtime pay.
I work in engineering. Every job I’ve ever had has been overtime exempt. Shit sucks.
I work in IT. I’m exempt too. :(
Then I guess a few companies I’ve worked for are breaking the law… Go figure. Our non exempt employees wouldn’t get overtime, they just worked for free if the were needed to work longer hours… Yay murica… Coincidentally those companies didn’t have their salaried employees clock in or out
Oh yeah. Wage theft accounts for more stolen dollars than any other form of theft.
Where is “over here”?
Pretty much all of the EU, at least - country specific regulations vary, but the basic framework is based on EU regulations.
Yep can confirm everything you stated.
Source: am from Europe
Then don’t vote for Republicans.
30ish percent of Americans identify as Republican (depending on the poll), so these types of questions are always ~66% of Americans in support
But many independent voters who want these policies vote for Republicans. If they want these policies, voting for Republicans will not get them there.
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These things require 60 votes in the Senate and approval in the House. Republicans are blocking them in both.
Nominally in power. In reality Congress is deadlocked and has been since his term started,and the USSC has aggressively blocked just about everything he has attempted via executive orders.
We need a lot more center left democrats in office, at the state and federal level, to get any significant reforms passed. That also means getting the geriatric Clinton era neoliberal democrats out of office.
I’ve worked in companies with a presence in various European countries over my career. Whether or not everyone takes Summer leave at the same time very much depends on the company, and the country. I specifically remember working with a Finnish contractor firm who planned to have no billable time available at all in August, from anyone. But our offices in France and elsewhere never fully shut down in August, they were just very lightly staffed. Everyone took some multi-week summer holiday, just not the whole place at once.
It’s not just summer leave, either. There are people all over the world having kids and going out on maternity (or even paternity!) leave for months at a time. When my wife and I had our kids in the US, I didn’t get any extra paternity leave, and just used saved-up PTO. I particularly remember that my wife had to stay in the hospital for a bit after my first kid was born, so the two weeks I had saved up flew by in a flash. I recall my boss strongly encouraging me to dial in to a conference call on that last PTO day, and when I did his boss lashed into me for taking so much time off. I started sending out resumes shortly after.
On the other hand, when the Europeans I worked with later got their summer or parental leave, their Project Managers just dealt with it, and if it meant their schedules had to slip, they slipped, no temper tantrums required. And I think that is the key difference. American bosses and PMs are much more likely to get away with assigning blame for schedule slips downward, perhaps because not as many people are unionized.
Many types of workers in scandinavia is not as heavily unionized either. Perhaps the ones that are not, enjoy a form of herd immunity from worker abuse from the ones that are.
This is exactly why every worker should be supporting unions even if their industry doesn’t have one. Rising tides and all that.
There’s a lot of unionisation. Further, there’s industry-wide collective agreements, which pretty much do the herd immunity thing.
Just an anecdote related to the first part of what you said: I’m in the US, PTO season seems to be December at my company. Both because some portion of people’s PTO hours will expire at the end of the year, and obviously because of being adjacent to Christmas and new year.
Depending on the country, there aren’t that many people in unions. Most countries in the EU (not Europe in general) have laws that protect the workers better than workers in the USA. The result is a different work culture.
Which is often still the result of strong union actions in the past, even if only 20 or 30 % are currently unionised.
Living in EU, mid thirties, full time office job getting about 33 days off per year all together. Max 4 weeks in a row tho, and must match schedules with colleagues so all keeps on running, no full closing of offices. The older you get, the more vacation days you get. Older colleagues complain they have too much holidays…
I’m on the UK and taking paternity leave in December. By using some of my holiday allowance plus a Christmas shutdown I’m turning my 4 week paternity leave into 8 weeks off in total. It’s hardly a holiday (seeing as we’ll be lookin after a newborn and my other half will be recovering from a c-section/childbirth) but god-damn I am looking forward to two months of just focusing on mu family.
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I am truly sorry that you are stuck in this awful situation. The system (or large parts of it) are designed like this. Keeps people in check. As an European, I find it baffling. Not everything is prefect here, far from it. I’m dealing with chronic health issues myself and I probably wouldn’t survive the US.
There is nothing I can do to help you, but I emphasize with your situation and hope, that you can rest soon!
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Probably not what you wanted to hear or see, but this is why managers are there. Exactly why you said the boss of the manager is an ass: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnsRU3JJ_rs
34% of Americans responded “grind my body into the ground, capitalism daddy”
I don’t think they even responded, their mouth were probably full.
The other 34% of adults surveyed were middle management.
Or were part of the base so trained as to kneejerk into thinking that sounds like “Communism”.
I know lots of us people with “unlimited time off” type contracts. No one ever takes more than a week because they are afraid that their bosses wouldnt like it.
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I…do not know what’s being said here.
In Germany, you get at least 28 days of holidays per year. Company even has to budget for them, so if you don’t take them, it creates a huge headache for them in regards to finalizing their yearly results because they might have to keep money back. Sorry, I don’t have the correct economical term, in German it is a Rückstellung. So there is a very high insentive to get all of your people to take their holidays, because otherwise it’s a pain in the ass and will delay everything.
Does Germany also have a maximum amount of days an employee can save before they are legally required to take them out?
My company has this and just about everyone I work with utilizes the unlimited time off. Most people land in the 5-6 weeks of vacation a year + sick + personal business + holidays.
There are the few who make work their hobby too, but you can’t do anything for those people IMO
What is the difference to vacation and personal days?
Attending funerals, births etc aren’t really holidays
Exactly, we get days off for this on top
I don’t know about that. Depends on who died…
Depends on where you live, the two European countries that I’ve lived and worked in my employers would allow additional leave for funerals of aunts, uncles, cousins and some even allowed for the death of a pet.
Oh, we have bereavement and paternity/maternity leave.
A lot of the time the difference is in how much notice you need to give work before taking the time off.
Sometimes they are treated different for expirations as well. For example, accrued vacation time usually has to be paid if you leave, might have some or all rollover to the be next year, while other types of time off are more likely use it or lose it
Personal business is for things that need to be done touring business hours but aren’t vacation. Things like doctors appointments, meeting a service person to fix something at your home, or some delivery that requires you be home. Those kind of things
Research shows that people with unlimited time off take fewer days than people with set amount of time off.
I am definitely an outlier here. We have unlimited PTO and 98% of our workforce is in the US so most people never take more than three or four days at a time. And often end up at the end of the year having taken less PTO than they would have as a regular hourly worker.
But not me… I’ll take 3 weeks at a time if I have plans. They can fire me if they want. I have a nice 3 months worth of severance written into my contract if they are the ones who terminate it.
That would give me a month more of break and then 2 months to find a job.
I know this isn’t possible for everyone. But if more people stood up for themselves, even within the confines of these contracts, we would all be better off as management and executive get used to it over time.
I’ve been told that generally, this is so the company doesn’t have to pay you back for unused PTO if you leave the company.
I can’t vouch for this as true, but it makes sense.
It can be to limit how much vacation time the company has to pay out on separation, or to limit how much “liability” for vacation pay they have on the books at any given time. If your employees get 5 days of vacation a year, use it or lose it, you don’t have to deal with someone who (the horror!) has built up 2 weeks and wants to use it all at once.
There are no state or federal laws that give employees a right to paid vacation time. Only 10 states require the company to pay out unused vacation time when you leave (CA, CO, IL, IN, LA, MA, ME, ND, NE, RI). In most of those states, use it or lose it policies are illegal. Everywhere else, the company policy basically decides if it gets paid out or not.
I have unlimited PTO, and it’s a total scam. I’m a contractor, and contracts have required hours within required time-frames. These time-frames don’t have margin for taking off a couple weeks at a time. Any time you take off, has to be made up, so it’s not really time off
That is why time off is supposed to be mandatory
If I’m stuck in the USA, I’m gonna find an unlimited time of job and actually use that benefit like Europeans. Fuck American work culture.
I’m sure you’ll keep that job for several months. The other part of American “work culture” is how quickly and easily we can lose that job. Be happy that you have some worker protection
If you get such a contract, make sure to read it closely. I had it once, phrased more like “there is no policy restricting time off”. It’s really up to your manager and it means there is an invisible limit that may be different for everyone, you won’t know about until you hit it.
In my case, I had a good manager, but sure enough, got dinged after taking off two weeks in the year (the worst part was no actual vacation but individual days off for kid’s appointments). I much prefer an actual limit, because then you can take it
Yeah because it’s a fucking scam who’s primary purpose is to eliminate pto liability from their accounting. It’s the equivalent of the 401k scam that eliminated corporate pension plans as a standard benefit.
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For some that’s true.
But we undergo a great deal of brainwashing. Unions are demonized, billionaires lionized, puritanical (insane) work ethic lauded, anything less than that vilified, etc.
Attempts at unionization are aggressively subverted and crushed by large corpos.
And most people are given just enough to not want to risk it all to get a bit more.
It will be a while, yet, before US culture shifts enough that more people side with unions, join unions, and build critical mass. Although, younger generations seem to be more aware of the anti-labor BS more than my gen (x) was at a similar age.
Yeah, they’re so afraid to unionize that…they unionized in Starbucks, UPS, railroads, hospitals, maintenance management…
Why do 34% of Americans not want paid time off work?
It’s not too surprising that a country that had a civil war over ‘employment laws’ is a bad place to work.
Who are the other 34%?? Who is like “yeah idk a consecutive 30 days off every summer actually, legitimately sounds BAD to me”?
They have dropped that “take a month off” thing like it’s some crazy regular thing that happens.
I don’t know about the rest of Europe, but in the UK you normally get 25 to 30 days of Annual Leave, companies often give extra days for long term or exceptional service, some have salary sacrifice options to buy more. Where I work you can even win some in charity raffles. The expectation is that you book them in advance with your boss when you want to use them.
If you want to save it all and take a month off then so long as the boss is okay with it, then off you go. But you won’t have any leave days for the rest of the year.
That’s double the amount of time off I have here in the U.S.
And I only get a week of paid sick days, which I’ve already used up due to an illness which hasn’t even been properly diagnosed yet.
I even have to make up time if I go to the doctor.
In the UK the government mandates that your employer pay you whats called statutory sick pay for up to 28 week should the illness require it, which is a minimum of £109 a week.
In addition, your continued employment by the company is protected and they cannot fire you for being sick.
In reality the company will often support staff members for much longer if needed. That’s just how things are expected to be. I’ve had a member of my team go on very long term sick with leukemia and he was supported by the company for over 4 years while he was in and out of hospital, letting him work part time and from home when he needed to, at his discretion.
Expectations on companies here and the protections offered to worked in regards to thier employment and unfair dismissal situations puts the “land off the free” to shame
Not surprised. I would honestly move there tomorrow (my father was English and I was born before the 1980s cutoff, so I could get citizenship), but I don’t want to abandon my dogs.
Why not take the dogs with you, if that is „all“?
Well, I don’t know UK law, but generally that means putting the dogs in quarantine for months and I don’t want to do that to them.
Yep - it’s a tired misconception I first encountered working for an American 20 odd years ago.
While it’s true that it’s difficult to get much out of France Spain and especially Italy in august - it’s because it’s holiday season - not because everyone is gone for a whole month
25 days off is 5 weeks (because days off would only be the work days.) That’s over a month.
Most positions in the US seem to give 10 days of annual leave a year. Some may also include sick pay as well.
It’s even more than 5 weeks if you take days off adjacent to bank holidays. One can easily stretch it to 6+ in many countries.
Cool, I get zero sick days and get paid a lump sum “vacation” bonus every year equivalent to one week’s salary.
I get no real paid time off otherwise
Strike
Do you get paid during your month off?
Of course.
In Finland you get paid 1.5x your normal monthly salary in the month you are in vacation. History of it is that to ensure you continue working after the vacation.
Edit: it is not in the law, it is just something that unions have negotiated
25 to 30 days of annual leave is unheard of in the US. And it translates to 5-6 weeks, which is well over a month. It’s common in a lot of European countries to take 4 of those weeks off in a single continuous summer break, usually August (some prefer July to avoid the August crowds). Yes, there’s a misconception that everyone in Europe takes August off, it’s ultimately up to each individual how they allocate their days off, but there are companies that do assume everyone will take August off and all but shut down during that month.
Yeah, I’m also from the UK and not sure where tf this “August off” thing is from, whether it’s something other European countries do.
People usually take 1-2 weeks off at a time for a holiday then the odd day here and there, a month is ridiculous.
I was gonna say that you’d burn out if you used up an entire month at once, but I guess Americans would be used to that kind of shit anyway.
Here in Germany taking 3 consecutive weeks off is pretty normal, for me that’s also the maximum that I can take off in a row without jumping through additional administrative hoops. A whole month isn’t normal, but it could certainly be arranged
Same, we have to cover about 4 weeks of closed child care and 6 weeks of closed schools. So we take a bunch of our 30 days and turn them into a 3 week stay somewhere.
Like so many things in the minds of Americans, when they think of social benefits in Europe, they think of Sweden.
In Sweden it is actually not unusual to take 4 full weeks off every year in Summer. Especially if you have kids. Can be even 6 weeks for some years if you still got enough parental leave to take. And that is in addition to time off around Christmas, although then maybe not more than 1 1/2 weeks or so.
Parental leave? Lol
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I don’t think its a Federal requirement to offer employees any vacation or sick leave in the US. For many office jobs you have to earn leave time over the course of months or years - it’s not unheard of to have zero leave time the first six months of employment.
Paid sick leave, no, but your job is protected by FMLA.
It’s only protected by FMLA after you have worked there for a year, because fuck you I guess.
Same in France.
If you want to save it all and take a month off then so long as the boss is okay with it
Yeah, most bosses aren’t ok with that.
Where I am now I get two consecutive weeks maxdeleted by creator
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I’m gonna assume the remaining 33% prefer to have a vacation other than summertime.
