Will it be effective?
Spoiler
No, it was not very effective.
EDIT: The banning event continues. Please consult the modlog to observe.
https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&modId=7121342
If you scroll down to about a day ago, you might be able to observe an emerging behavior from this mod.
EDIT 2: The mod in question moderates a total of 108 Lemmy communities. How deep does this conspiracy run? Is this mod a lost Redditor? More to come!
EDIT 3: The mod has now removed my comment all together, one might assume because it was still receiving upvotes in the 2 hours following my ban. Are there similarities here to Watergate? You be the judge!
EDIT 4: The mod in question has now been removed as a mod of the !vegan@lemmy.world community, as a result of their abuse of power.
https://lemmy.world/post/19731457
This was their response:
EDIT 5: This will be my final update, since as far as I see it, the issue this thread focuses on has been resolved. To quote Beaver herself in a very ironic comment she made directed towards someone else:
Clearly this was all just a case of…
Mods 108 communities?
What we have here, sir and/or madam, is a Reddit mod. Excessive modding, a smell you can’t quite place, same techniques.
Gotta say: I was hoping we wouldn’t be followed by that type.
Pretty sure the Reddit mods were the biggest group of complainers against Reddits API changes, since they used third party apps in order to mod.
So it stands to reason a ginormous group of them switched to Lemmy and had plenty of free time to mod there as well.
Out of those, less then 10 are active
There are plenty of LW mods who mod a higher number of active communities
This has been a problem in Lemmy.ca for a while and I brought this up on !lemmy_ca_support@lemmy.ca a while back:
It is inevitable, all lemmy instances will eventually be taken over by supermods that leverage their power to harass.
This vegan fiasco isn’t even the first time but I guarantee you the admins will leave them to powermod the remaining 107 as they see fit.
I guarantee you the admins will leave them to powermod the remaining 107 as they see fit.
Well, in this case the person in question couldn’t handle the fallout of their actions, and actually deleted their whole account.
Powermods like that don’t usually have only one account, and since they can mod themselves wherever they go, they usually do.
Nuking an account is just changing skins. The admins have the power to track and fix that, but they won’t.
Oh boy, it looks like they’re posting the “you should feed your obligate carnivorous pets a fully vegan diet” garbage again.
Edit:
Trying to paint your special diet group as a minority group is kinda fucking offensive. People get murdered, raped, beaten, abused, fired, divorced, jailed, tortured, sent to re-education camps, and so on, for being black, or LGBT, or Hispanic, or Muslim, or whatever. Vegans though? No. Unlike the other examples, vegans don’t get murdered for something you were born with; they don’t have entire continents who want to murder them. They just get ridiculed, and tbh, nowadays most of the ridicule is due to their garbage attitudes and nothing to do with the diet itself.
The modlog should at least contain an identifier of the mod. Maybe not a link to their account but something that can be tracked across communities. To see who is abusing their power.
I’m pretty it’s Beaver. I’m now banned (and I appear to be blocked by Beaver as well) and I’m pretty sure the only recent direct interaction I’ve had with the community was downvoting the recent articles about how vegan diets are okay for carnivorous pets.
Yeah, beaver is a bit batshit lol
They went batshit with the meme posting last night and the threads were mostly shitting on them. They are full tilt.
Yup just checked, banned.
Modlog does contain the info, it’s just not displayed on the website. You can get the full data from lemmy API
Example:
{ "mod_ban_from_community": { "id": 19651, "mod_person_id": 7121342, "other_person_id": 8043739, "community_id": 1309, "reason": "Rule 5", "banned": true, "expires": "2024-09-19T21:03:47Z", "when_": "2024-09-12T21:05:15.205847Z" }, "moderator": { "id": 7121342, "name": "Beaver", "display_name": "Beaver [she/her]", "avatar": "https://lemmy.ca/pictrs/image/5801e891-c371-459d-a262-84e476040930.png", "banned": false, "published": "2024-04-11T00:47:49.008680Z", "actor_id": "https://lemmy.ca/u/Beaver", "bio": "Human/Animal Rights Supporter \n\n🇵🇸🇺🇦🇹🇼🇬🇪🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🇲🇩\n\nWe Need Proportional Representation Badly\n", "local": false, "banner": "https://lemmy.ca/pictrs/image/fea3cd18-4600-49b1-a0b9-be394adeab83.jpeg", "deleted": false, "matrix_user_id": "@ralimbahere:matrix.org", "bot_account": false, "instance_id": 251 }, "community": { "id": 1309, "name": "vegan", "title": "vegan", "description": "Please also check out [vegantheoryclub.org](https://vegantheoryclub.org/) for a great set of well-run communities for vegan news, cooking, gardening, and art. It is not federated with LW, but it is a nice, cozy, all-in-one space for vegans.\n\n***\n\nWe ask that the you have an understanding on what veganism is before engaging in this community.\n\nIf you think you have been banned erroneously, please get in contact with one of the other mods for appeals.\n\nModerator reports may not federate properly and may delay moderator action. Please DM an active mod if an abusive comment remains after reporting it.\n\n***\n\n## Welcome\n\nWelcome to c/vegan@lemmy.world. Broadly, this community is a place to discuss veganism. Discussion on [intersectional](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality) topics related to the animal rights movement are also encouraged.\n\n## What is Veganism?\n\n> 'Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals ...'\n\n— abridged definition from [The Vegan Society](https://www.vegansociety.com/go-vegan/definition-veganism)\n\n## Rules\n\n*The rules are subject to change, especially upon community feedback.*\n\n1. Discrimination is **not** tolerated. *This includes [speciesism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciesism)*.\n2. Topics not relating to veganism are subject to removal.\n3. Posts are to be as accessible as practicable:\n\t- pictures of text require alt-text;\n\t- paywalled articles must have an accessible non-paywalled link.\n4. Content warnings are required for triggering content.\n5. Bad-faith [carnist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnism) rhetoric & anti-veganism are not allowed, as this is not a space to debate the merits of veganism. Anyone is welcome here, however, and so good-faith efforts to ask questions about veganism may be given their own weekly stickied post in the future (see current stickied discussion).\n\t- before jumping into the community, we encourage you to read [examples of common fallacies here.](https://yourveganfallacyis.com/)\n\t- if you're asking questions about veganism, be mindful that the person on the other end is trying to be helpful by answering you and treat them with at least as much respect as they give you.\n6. Misinformation, particularly that which is dangerous or has malicious intent, is subject to removal.\n\n## Resources on Veganism\n\nA compilation of many vegan resources/sites in a Google spreadsheet:\n\n* [vegancheatsheet.org](https://vegancheatsheet.org/)\n\nHere are some documentaries that are recommended to watch if planning to or have recently become vegan:\n\n* [You Will Never Look at Your Life in the Same Way Again](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3u7hXpOm58)\n* [Dominion (2018)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko) (CW: gore, animal abuse)\n\n## Vegan Fediverse\n\nLemmy: [vegantheoryclub.org](https://vegantheoryclub.org/)\n\nMastodon: [veganism.social](https://veganism.social/)\n\n### Other Vegan Communities\n\n#### General Vegan Comms\n!vegan@lemmy.ml\n\n!vegan@hexbear.net\n\n!vegan@vegantheoryclub.org\n\n!vegan@slrpnk.net\n\n#### Circlejerk Comms\n!vegancirclejerk@lemmy.ml\n\n\n#### Vegan Food / Cooking\n!homecooks@vegantheoryclub.org \n\n!veganrecipes@sh.itjust.works\n\n!recipes@vegantheoryclub.org\n\n", "removed": false, "published": "2023-06-09T20:05:49.639993Z", "updated": "2024-09-03T01:09:32.860483Z", "deleted": false, "nsfw": false, "actor_id": "https://lemmy.world/c/vegan", "local": true, "icon": "https://lemmy.ca/pictrs/image/22056785-18ee-40dc-a6da-03af986f2d3b.jpeg", "hidden": false, "posting_restricted_to_mods": false, "instance_id": 1 }, "banned_person": { "id": 8043739, "name": "mushroomstormtrooper", "banned": false, "published": "2024-05-27T16:10:30.690962Z", "actor_id": "https://lemmy.world/u/mushroomstormtrooper", "local": true, "deleted": false, "bot_account": false, "instance_id": 1 } }Nice… thanks. I had indeed just checked the website. I think it should then just be on the website. Especially if they are exposing votes then open this up too.
Yeah it’s weird it just says ‘mod’ or ‘admin’ instead of the username
It’s because people abused mods who banned them and such. I kinda get it.
Transparency for thee…
Yeah…
Thunder shows the mod for each modlog action.
The info is there. You can tell who it is by using the filters (e.g. logs filtered on me as the user that were modded by beaver: https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&modId=7121342&userId=36)
It’s a pain in the ass but it works.
Yeah vegans should not consider themselves as a minority.
The ANIMALS are the minority group. Not YOU. The entitlement speaks to an ego trip and is a vicious representation of the cause.
They should have their platform removed because they are hurting the image of the vegan movement
This is coming from a vegan btw
The ANIMALS are the minority group. Not YOU.
To be fair, minority in the sense that there is a power imbalance between us humans, the majority, and domesticated animals, the minority.
I was curious, so I had a look, seems like it still leads to violence in some occurences
A Florida man was recently arrested for allegedly stabbing his cousin after a heated debate about whether whole cow’s milk or almond milk is superior.
The debate over whether to consume animal products, like meat and dairy, or go entirely plant-based (vegan) is a hot-button issue, often filled with vitriol and name-calling online and in real life.
https://www.businessinsider.com/why-do-angry-vegans-meat-eaters-fight-so-much-2020-2?op=1
Yeah, but c’mon, that’s Floridaman. He’s a meth head who’d murder someone because he wanted to fuck an alligator and thought he needed a human sacrifice to do it.
Whoa now! Don’t tarnish the good name of alligator fuckers like that!
Alligator lovers
Hey, the lovers are okay in my book too
I don’t think that counts as targeted hate crime or whatever. He wasn’t stabbed for veganism, he was stabbed from the heated argument, which by trigger happy dumbos like these could have been about anything.
I’m not a vegan or even a vegetarian, but even I can see that my vegetarian friends get questioned uncomfortably all the time for their diet choice. When you do something differently, you inevitably get bullied.
Removed by mod
I used to be a vegetarian for a decade and then a pescetarian before apathy fully set in and I saw how pointless it all is.
Vegans and vegetarians can be some of the most judgemental gatekeeping assholes out there. Many of them aren’t, but the ones that are militant and overbearing are the worst and only push others from their cause. Those ones desperately want to feel better than others, so become borderline eating disordered to elevate themselves to some holy god level in their minds because they eat beans and lentils.
They aren’t in the same class as minorities. They choose to eat the diet they do. And no one can visibly tell they are vegetarian/vegan until they tell others they are.
They are not in the same situation as minorities, but if they stay true to their ideals, they get bullied just like minorities. The fact there are assholes among them just like in any other group of people changes nothing.
Getting bullied is not the same as being a “MINORITY”. White kids who are not minorities in North America but get bullied all the time in school. Not eating flesh of a mammal or fish etc doesn’t mean you are a “minority”. Like I said, I’ve experienced life as a veggie. Is it annoying? The stupid questions, the comments people make? Yes. But I’ve never had a cop pull me over and worry about whether I’ll die that day because I don’t eat beef. Or worry, walking down the street, alone at night as a single woman, if I’ll be assaulted because I don’t eat chicken. Non-meat-eaters aren’t minorities in the sense that they are discriminated against in the idea that the word “minority” conjures up. They deal with, at most, someone tricking them into eating meat. Which I’ve had done. It felt violating and offensive but wasn’t any sort of level as someone who is an actual “minority” in our continent.
As I think about it though, the word minority now mosty means an ethnical minority. But when mentioning women - although discriminated against, they’re not a minority in the original sense at all - there is usually the same number of women and men, the problems lie elsewhere. In this sense of the word, vegans are a minority in our society. They could be compared to religious minorities, I guess. It’s a choice, but a choice based on ethical foundations, so going against this choice is unthinkable for those people without being untrue to themselves and betraying what they believe in.
Okay, I can really understand what you are trying to say. I feel like there needs to be a different or new word for this kind of experience maybe? Because choosing to abstain from a food group or what have you doesn’t make your minority in the sense most of us think of, even if it’s technically correct. And we don’t want to minimize what true minorities go through when our food choices in this case our truly our own choice. But it is definitely a different experience when someone finds out you choose not to eat the type of food they do. They take it so personally you are not eating meat. I actually had the same issues when I was doing Atkins ages ago, which is mostly protein based. People questioning my food choices because it wasn’t what they they eat and they took it as a personal judgement against them.
I didn’t want to say it was the same. Just that they do get bullied.
Yeah sorry if I got a bit heated in my response. Maybe I misunderstood your point.
Most people aren’t vegan, so vegans are a minority. That’s not difficult to understand, so we have to assume you’re reading in bad faith. Stop it please.
Edit: veganism isn’t a diet either. Quite easy to find this out if you even stick the word into a search engine.
This might be a language barrier thing, but in most english-speaking countries when you use the term “minority” to refer to a group of people, that typically refers to a group who is a minority based on race, sex, ethnicity, gender or some other inherent trait. You might say, “a small community” to refer to a group within a group, but you wouldn’t say, “a minority community” for that unless you were trying to imply that the community in question was a racial, ethnic, gender, or other form of minority.
What about “vocal minority”?
I have seen the word used in both ways, though I think that in this case the user was intending to use it to imply oppression, rather than simply meaning that they do not have a lot of users.
While you have a point, my immediate reaction was, “oh cool, now they’re trying to do it too” (I’ve seen tankies claim the same shit). When I probe my brain to try and figure out why that was a response, the result is my brain telling me that I’m hearing some kind of dog whistle but it won’t go into more detail about what makes that statement sound like a dog whistle.
Tbh, considering how unhinged they’re behaving (though at this point I think they’re doing it for shits and giggles), I wouldn’t be surprised if they truly meant it that way; it honestly wouldn’t be the first time I’ve seen someone on here try to claim something like that. I suppose that doesn’t mean they intended to mean it that way, now I’m curious if anyone else had a similar interpretation. I’m used to hearing people referring to racial, or gender, or ethnic minorities when they say something like, “I’m part of a misunderstood minority group”; and I know I’ve heard people from other english-speaking countries (other than the US) do it as well.
No, English is my first language, and all I’m saying is that you could’ve interpreted it the other way, which is plausible at the end of the day, and it’d be true, which is what it means to read something charitably/in good faith.
To put the shoe on the other foot, how would it sound to you if someone on the Carnivore diet, or on the Atkins diet called themselves a minority?
It just doesn’t make sense, because dietary choices, are just that, choices. While actual minorities, like POCs and LGBTQ people, are born the way they are. They don’t have any choices in the matter.
Don’t get me wrong, dietary choices can be a super serious matter, and I am not saying that people aren’t discriminated against for them. I just think its wrong to call someone a minority based on any sort of dietary choice, at least in the same context that minority is usually used.
Religion is a choice, does that make religious minorities not minorities? It’s a strongly held ethical belief system.
Religion, by itself, is normally not a qualifier when we refer to minorites, as that word normally implies an ethnic or racial minority. However, there are some religions with ethnicities tied to them, e.g. Jewish people, and Muslims, so the line can definitely become a bit blurred.
Jewish people are a minority in most places because of their ethnicity, not their religion. Muslims are often referred to as minorities in most places, because most Muslims are ethnically related, at least as far as the Western world is concerned.
Some also reuse the word minority interchangably to refer to religious minorities, political minorities, etc, which further blurs the line, but the most common use of the word is in reference to race or ethnicity.
Again, veganism isn’t a diet (this is painfully easy to find out if you just quickly look it up!) and if you interpret minority in a literal sense, it’s true and relevant because it’s easy to be overwhelmed by the majority if you’re in the minority, which is what the person posting seems to be worried about.
It’s still a CHOICE. No one is born vegan; it’s a position that someone arrives at.
So is religion, theoretically at least.
I agree with you. Unfortunately, the law does not. The law privileges religion as though it was inherent and immutable.
I understand that Veganism is more than just a diet. Its a lifestyle, culture, pledge to a certain set of morals, etc. It can be as important as religion is to a devout religious person.
A person on the Carnivore diet can make the same point. A person that subscribes to a political identity could also make your same point. This slippery slope leads to Nazis being able to call themselves minorities, because technically, Naziism is a culture, too, albeit a terrible one, and they are very thankfully in the minority of political beliefs.
The difference being that nazis actually should be overwhelmed by the majority.
There are certainly vegan diets. People who still eat animal produce may still be interested in vegan alternatives without becoming vegan or vegetarian. And I don’t think being part of a small community of a certain life choice isn’t really making you a minority in the political sense (I assume that’s what the minority part is trying to imply here, that there’s some sort of entitlement for a minority protection).
Also, promoting vegan diets for carnivorous pets is indeed animal abuse and should not be defended or promoted. That’s typically a telltale sign of veganazis, which are generally a terrible thing even for actual vegans as they put the whole lifestyle into a bad light with their overly aggressive rhetoric and disinformation.
There are certainly vegan diets.
Yes, and there are Muslim diets I’m sure, but Islam isn’t a diet either, for example. Just stick “veganism” into your search engine of choice and the credible sources won’t call it a diet.
And I don’t think being part of a small community of a certain life choice isn’t really making you a minority in the political sense
I’m arguing that they may not have meant that. The criticism should be “that’s clumsy wording because it sounds like you mean minority in a political sense” or “surely you don’t mean…” rather than “you’re comparing yourself to (minorities in the political sense) and therefore vegans are bad”.
Also, …
Honestly, I suspect your willingness to assume the worst of what a vegan’s said, and that you bring up a minority view even amongst vegans out of context, betrays a prejudgment that plays as much, if not more, of a role as how aggressively some vegans argue in how you’re approaching the whole thing.
Yes, and there are Muslim diets I’m sure, but Islam isn’t a diet either, for example. Just stick “veganism” into your search engine of choice and the credible sources won’t call it a diet.
And there’s surely people who are looking for traditional Muslim food without wanting to convert to Islam as well. Muslim’s would probably treat people curious about their food less hostile than those vegans would.
I suspect your willingness to assume the worst of what a vegan’s said
You can suspect that I assume the worst of any sort of human, especially when they constantly argue in bad faith and with hostile rhetoric. That being said, I don’t approach vegans at all. I just observe the constant self righteous shit flinging they do from the outside, or get unwillingly caught up in it because they can’t help but attack people even outside of their little radicalized bubbles.
But then you’re willingly admitting that you don’t speak to enough vegans to have an informed idea of their ethos, which is something I wouldn’t readily admit even if I did it. Not sure what your first point has to do with the matter at hand though.
Not speaking to veganazis isn’t the same as not speaking to vegans. Normal vegans I have no issues talking to.
My first point is about the community that’s about vegan food shunning those interested in vegan food because they’re unwilling to talk to people who eat animal produce.
I think you’re going on a bit of a tangent I’m not interested in, sorry, but otherwise I’m not really following, and if you say things like “veganazis” it just reminds me of when people used to write “feminazis”.
I’ve been banned for breaking rule 5, which is weird since I’ve never posted in their community.
Have you had impure thoughts about breaking rule 5?
No, but you can bet your bottom dollar I will when I go to bed tonight.
I got banned for saying I didn’t think the meme was funny.
I legitimately do not care about that, but I do care deeply about how funny Beaver’s tantrum is, so I hope she keeps it up.
It’s funny that she thinks she’s accomplishing anything here but all that’s happening is that she’s eroding her own credibility, especially with those angry memes targeting people who aren’t Vegans and her beef with the Lemmy.world admins.
She’s eroding the credibility of the community she champions as well.
This isn’t the first time a very loud minority ruined things for the rest of their collective.
That’s very true, her behavior is indeed quite harmful towards the community she claims to support and erodes the credibility of their movement. Even though the thing about crazy vegans is largely a stereotype and all vegans are not like that, she is perpetuating that stereotype by her own behavior.
beaver is hilarious
Weird that criticism of Spam wouldn’t be acceptable in a vegan community!
That’s why you go with
!Incidentally, vegan Spam does exist both in the official Spam brand and in another brand called unMeat. As someone who really doesn’t like Spam, though, I’m unqualified to judge it.
meatsplained lmao
It’s also hilarious how they thought they could just ban an instance admin, and when it didn’t work call it abuse.
If you consult the modlog, you can see a point during the hubris at which the mod in question was removed as a mod from the community. It is suspicious, and might suggest they were a mod deemed to be spreading misinformation.
Also they made a post which was being openly hostile to Lemmy.world’s mods, I mean what the fuck?
Yeah that mod was a real piece of work, it’s probably for the best that one of the other mods removed her and her alts from the community, and also is in the process of reversing their malicious actions.
I unironically love the terms “meatsplained” and especially “carnist.”
On my next date I’ma say: “I’m a Carnist… RAWR” and then click my teeth. Clear test for taking or leaving.(edit: this was a stupid thing to say.)You’d be surprised how often that happens when people find out you don’t eat meat.
It’s, like, a lot.
oh, good point… OK I won’t do it, thanks for the tip!
(edit: this was a stupid thing to say.)
Correction: it was silly, and so I loved it 😂 (Maybe I misunderstood, I just wanted to advocate for it being okay to be silly:-)
Buffy or Firefly?
Corpse muncher is a good one. Blood mouth is another. I’ve heard something about cadaver as well, maybe cadaver eater? Can’t remember.
Seriously how fucking old are you (the silly vegans, not the person in replying to, I didnt make that clear)? Does that ever work? It’s just so ridiculously childish and funny.
Carnist Bloodmouth sounds like an Ork name.
They always make me laugh because it reminds me of a kid on a playground not really knowing how to throw curse words so comeing up with something like, “poopie buttface!”
They so damned silly.
You’re right, I’m honestly embarassed.
Sorry that wasn’t directed at you. The “you” in my rhetorical question was the silly vegan extremists, not you. That was not clear. Go ahead and claim the word and make dinosaur noises. It makes their silliness even funnier and takes away all their power.
It’s an echo bunker. Banning anyone who doesn’t whole throatedly support their beliefs is a feature of the community, not a bug. I am banned.
Now I’m wondering if all the other drama surrounding her was actually her fault…
Good job assassinating your own character, I guess, Beavs.
Ah, this explains it! Saw I was banned from a community that I’d never posted in and evidently one of the mods is a wanker. Mystery solved :)
Am I missing something here? The vegan community is for vegans and people to ask questions about being vegan but is not for debating about any part of being vegan. That is their rule 5, which I see people break every day thinking it is ok to shit all over vegans there. If you don’t want to hear about vegans then block the community.
The problem is, in my opinion, that they post memes that are clerly provoking non-vegan people for discussion.
It’s weird to jump under a “here are my 15 ways of cooking asparagus” post with anti-vegan content. But “look at these carnovorous clowns” memes are clearly offensive.
Sounds like something a carnivorous clown would say!
(/s)
I don’t think it’s intended to provoke non-vegan people, I think it’s meant to be a ‘for us, by us’ community. PSA to all: there’s a block community button for communities that are not hateful or illegal (you should report those) but are things you’d prefer not to see on your personalized feeds
That’s what private communities are for. Calling people names while perfectly aware of it leaking into the public feed is a provocation. And it worked.
Private communities don’t exist; you can only create an instance and defederate from everyone else. VeganTheoryClub is an instance which defederated from Lemmy.World, for example.
I’m not sure what you’re referring to re: name-calling tbh, and I think this thread is an overreaction, but I agree with you that non-private communities have some obligation to civility or something like that
but is not for debating about any part of being vegan
If that’s the case, I want to know why perfectly innocuous comments are still removed. Seems like they operate on a whim.
Depends on the context maybe? Idk I am not a mod. I’ve just seen comments about arguing for eating meat or saying something like “I’m going to eat 2 hamburgers now because of you” which are just annoying. I thought that was what this was about. I’ll leave my comments up for anyone else confused.
Cause over the last few weeks, a bunch of debates over moderation drama have been full of people attacking vegans over the cat taurine debate. That drama is over and it reached a consensus resolution between the mods and admins. If they’ve made an executive judgement that the moderation drama is no longer relevant and baits carnists into breaking rule 5, then removing that debate is a valid application of rule 5.
Odd then that they’re using Rule 5 bans on people like me who never posted to their community
The mod isn’t banning people for debating in the comments. A lot of people the mod is banning (myself included) are people who only downvoted posts. Considering that a large portion of the posts are blatantly antagonist things like this, it easy to see why they’re getting downvoted. If you’re going to insult 90% of the users on an instance, then you’re going to get downvoted.
The mod could have made the community private so they could insult people without consequences, but instead, they decided to remain public while banning anyone who downvotes their insults. They want to continue to antagonize the instance while removing the instance’a ability to respond. They want to artificially lower the number of downvotes they get, so it doesn’t look like their antagonistic bullshit is as unpopular as it is.
Everyone could block the community, and if you choose to do that, that’s a reasonable response, but it shouldn’t be the only response. We should be able to express our opinion about the content in our feeds, even if it’s just downvoting it. Why should an entire instance be expected to hide from one abusive community?
This good advice. Everyone should block the community.
Well yeah if seeing vegan content upsets you enough to break their rule 5 then it is not a good community for you. And that is ok, honestly I get grief in real life about me trying to be vegan. Having a place amongst other vegans and people not anti-vegan is nice. I also don’t know the context behind the post so if there is something I’m missing feel free to tell me.
I got banned (rule 5) for downvoting a meme with misleading information. I’m not vegan, but I like the idea in general so I did enjoy seeing content. But things have gone off the rails recently.
I’d say not just recently. They’ve stepped it up after the big drama but been at it for a while.
Oh, but the “why do you hate veganism huh??” memes continue. Yeah, it’s definitely the veganism I can’t stand and not the fan club!
Ah I see. Not sure what is going on then.
This is entirely a mod issue. I’m vegan, and they need to be removed. They are ruining the image of the community so that people like OP start pushing for everyone to block it. If that isn’t ruining the prospects of our cause, then I don’t know what is.
Hi there. Things escalated really out of control due to a rogue mod, but the situation has since been resolved, and things should be back to normal.
I personally believe this particular mod may be abusing the community’s rule 5, stretching it to suit their agenda. But I’ll leave the interpretation up to you.
Note that others are reporting being banned by simply downvoting community posts. Suggesting further overreach.
I forgot Lemmy lets you see who downvoted and upvoted. Idk why that is happening. I thought the brigade was about comments.
I’ll be one to admit my own comment was a bit cheeky. I had honestly never really noticed the !vegan@lemmy.world in my All feed until today, when this particular mod started posting a great deal of really poorly formatted memes. My cheeky comment was my only ever comment in the community.
I can’t speak to any actual brigading, as the community normally isn’t worth my time, which is very, very important to me.
Not just poorly formatted…they were full of insults.
Theory: the posts are bait so Beaver can feel powerful banning people.
I’m on a (admittedly slow), slide towards vegetarianism so I’m obviously pro-vegan…but apparently I got banned two days ago for rule 5
Users cannot vote in a community that has banned them. If the mod wants to restrict voting only to people who vote in good faith, that’s their prerogative. It’s probably a good idea, it prevents downvote spam from bots and the like. When you have a community that has very different values from /all, maybe kicking the /all people who vote against the sub’s values out is good. Voting is participation.
Shining transparency on these values and modding decisions to the attention of the fediverse then serves the greater good.
It does. You’ve opened the conversation about voting as participation and helped us reach some new ideas on moderation practice. It’s dialectics. As I said in another comment in this thread, I think the existence of posts like this is good even if this ban wasn’t a problem.
When some of those mods are perfectly fine with lgbtq persecution, and make it out like vegans have it worse, or dont care because they wouldn’t have to see it personally…
I’m just going to go ahead and consider it a toxic shithole. Worst part? Different mod, but they seem to be all over the same vegan communities, so none of them become worthwhile.
I personally don’t care if they ban me since I’ve blocked the communities anyway. Just unfortunate as I really enjoy seeing some of the recipes, as there are a decent number of them that are gluten free (which I need to be).
Which mod is queerphobic? Can I see the evidence?
I’ll have to unblock, so I can do that later on, sure. Working so not paying much attention to Lemmy at the moment.
Edit: Sorry, my mistake, not a mod. An admin on the instance recommended / linked to in the side bar.
Well, spoke to soon. I was banned for being ‘uncivil’ on the .world vegan community for calling out this same behavior, and hoping the community ended up somewhere other than on that particular instance.
Sooo… yeah I’m keeping the block. Maybe expanding to some mods there would be sensible.
Edit: There, all set now.
Fwiw, anyone giving you grief irl is a jerk, unless you’re trying to convert them.
Away from the internet, I know a good handful of vegans that I gladly cook for. Not regions everyone hates y’all for living your beliefs.
And, just for full disclosure, I troll vegans online. That’s where most of the jerks that are vegan do their thing, not irl.
Me and you, if life threw us together, I’d make you my vegan chili, and we’d chill. But I’d still troll you online if you did the usual online stuff that gets vegans painted as crazy.
Which is my best effort at saying that that’s probably what you’re missing. Even people like me that have no problems with the precepts of veganism per se, we can get tired of the vegans that take things too far, and then the entire belief system gets colored by that brush. It creates a general fatigue, then a general stereotype, and that turns into assholes going to vegan spaces and being assholes (as opposed to only doing it in other spaces). That in turn makes militant vegans go on the warpath, and you get stuff like this drama lol
It’s a cycle of annoyance and limited perception. That cycle attracts the worst elements of humanity
Thank you for posting this. I know now that it was because of voting which is ehh not as bad as I thought. But yeah IRL my family and partner aren’t very supportive, I’ve been trying to ignore their comments. It’s just hard sometimes, like just last night my partner said they felt sorry for me during dinner because I didn’t have meat in my meal. I think that’s probably why some vegans become more aggressive online as well as the cycle going on. Idk I just like reading articles and seeing recipes. When I first went vegan my dad tried getting my whole family to convince me to eat meat again. I love my dad but that sucked. I also love my partner and they are otherwise fine, but they seem to have a problem and are adjusting to my new diet. I can understand the fatigue a vegan may go through, but banning people for voting isn’t exactly what I had in mind as their rule 5.
I’m sorry you went through that. It shapes us to have thicker skin, but it can also lead to bad outcomes depending on the friends and family involved.
Ed Winters talked about this on his channel recently. One of the biggest reasons people don’t go vegan, and one of the biggest reasons pushing people away from the movement is the social dimension: living with people and still holding them as on your side when they very clearly violate your moral code. It’s one of the hardest burdens of vegans, as I’m sure it can be for other minorities. Again, I’m not equating vegans to a minority group like LGBTQ or POC. The animals are the minority group. But when you have discrimination and sometimes segregation for specific groups in society, you can start to draw parallels.
Good luck with your vegan life from a fellow vegan 🤙
I’m sorry you’re running into such a degree of outright opposition. I never have understood that part, why someone that loves you would be persistent and nigh aggressive about something that’s essentially not their business.
Somebody wants to make a change, move towards something they feel is better, you support that, even if you need to draw your own boundaries about it.
That would be exhausting to deal with for anyone, the opposition.
I kinda get where the mod is at, the way you describe the fatigue. I think it’s better to step aside once your at that point, refresh yourself, maybe make a decision about that being a permanent break from trying to herd cats online or not. I’ve had to do the a few times over the years.
I think what you are missing is that they’re banning people for breaking Rule 5 that haven’t broken Rule 5.
Nobody is taking issue with them banning people that broke Rule 5.
Rule 5 - This community is an echo bunker.
If you don’t want to hear about vegans then block the community.
Doesn’t help much when one of their users is being so fucking stupid that news of it spreads across all of Lemmy.
Consider the absurdity of that statement for a second.
How can a non-vegan ask a question about the lifestyle without engaging in a debate? How do you actively interact with information without debating it?
Debates don’t have to be antagonistic. When both parties are genuinely interested in questioning their own values and opinions they can be incredibly rewarding. I can understand a rule against antagonism, but disallowing debates inherently precludes honest questioning for people interested in growing their knowledge on the lifestyle.
The bans seem to be targeting downvotes without other contribution and cheeky comments such as the one in the OP
Well it gets fatiguing to debate all the time, especially when some people are just trolling. But you can ask questions like what do you do for protein, B12, iron, etc. without debating. What are some staples that vegans eat, is it easy to make vegan food, how expensive is vegan food, what does a balanced vegan meal look like, what are some recipes, etc. Even asking can a person thrive on a vegan diet through all stages of life and you’ll probably be given an article or recommended to watch Game Changers.
I think they want to stop the antagonistic people, especially if all they want to do is say: it is only natural to eat meat/we evolved to eat meat, humans have dominion over animals, animals don’t have feelings, vegans are just being overemotional aka only logical people eat meat, it is ok to kill animals, killing animals in factory farms is ok because it is efficient, there isn’t enough land to grow vegan food for everyone, etc. Just shit that’s been responded to a million times and at this point seems bad faith since it’s been debunked before. Maybe they could have a sticky or wiki about these common arguments, idk I am not a mod.
It also matters what your tone is and that can be the difference between someone asking questions in good faith vs someone doing an antagonistic debate. But yeah at this point vegans do not need to question their values or opinions when it comes to their diet and lifestyle. You cannot convince a vegan it is ok to kill an animal for food but you might be able to convince a non-vegan it is wrong to kill an animal for food. Anyway that was just my thoughts on it.
If they indeed promoted vegan diets for carnivores then I’m for a ban of the mod / community too. That’s very much animal abuse.
I’ve responded to this before and no one cared but here is the original thread since everyone has greatly exaggerated what was said about cats who are obligate carnivores not obligated to eat meat per se.
Also the notion of “owning” another animal is speciesist.
I’m not sure I can take the people in that community and what they claim seriously.
I admit I have no idea how to respond to that. Every vegan has different views on their lifestyle. I have two dogs, they eat kibble that has meat in it (they are very picky idk if I can change them to a vegetarian kibble), I homemake simple peanut butter biscuit treats for them, and I brush their teeth with meat flavored toothpaste. This is ok to me but is probably out of line for others. Some vegans would never own a cat and would rather own a rabbit or guinea pig instead. This vegan believes more that we shouldn’t have pets apparently. I don’t have this view so I cannot defend it other than they are trying to reduce harm in their own way.
And they’d ban you for your opinion.
Thanks for adding context, I had no idea what rule 5 was.
This is their rule 5:
That rule seems very… Open to interpretation. Thanks for the info though.
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Many people see a post on All, never notice the community name, never read the sidebar, comment, and move on.
I’m not vegan, but honestly I can understand. As soon as you have an opinion which is not the one of the majority, your posts, even in thematic spaces, are heavily downvoted, and it’s tiring. I’m not conservative, I disagree with the posts in c/conservative, buy why would I downvote the things they publish there? A lot of Lemmy members do, however. Same with c/vegan or the religious communities.
The Fediverse seems a lot “bubblier” than Reddit, with people quicker to hit the downvote button for views that intrude. I’ve lost a lot of drive to engage here, I find myself often dropping a comment into a discussion and then never looking back at it. Unfortunate, but I suppose not too surprising when communities are smaller.
I hide downvotes since we can (latest Lemmy upgrade), that’s better
I also hide downvotes due to the same reasons, (was getting stressed) but that also hides other users’ downvotes. Is there any way to still see them?
Sorry. Do I understand this correctly? You were getting stressed by random internet strangers downvoting you? Are you serious?
yeah I have an anxiety disorder, I get stressed by a lot of things
I’m sorry to hear that. I hope life becomes slower and calmer for you in the future. I don’t read anything into up or down votes. I just open my fat stupid mouth and anonymously comment. Sometimes people like it, sometimes they don’t. Voting is more a reflection of the people you talk to. I’m sure the first person who said the world was round and circled the sun would have been downvoted into oblivion back in the day, but… gestures broadly at modern astronomy. Don’t sweat it.
Not that I know of, it’s all or nothing at the moment
Oh man, I am so happy I blocked that community months ago because I just have no interest in it or their diet.
I’m interested and I’m cutting down on animal sourced food, but they are aggressive, ignorant and overall annoying, so I blocked them some days ago. I’m not sure what their goal is. Gatekeeping veganism so that nobody considers it?
There are plenty of other spaces where vegans can respond to “plants feel pain” and “but what about lions” a million times a day, but that gets old pretty quick. The goal is to have a space where vegans can just interact amongst themselves, which necessarily requires some degree of gatekeeping
Then shouldn’t their space be private, so they don’t show up on all? They are begging for downvotes with how nasty their memes are. I understand their point, but i am sure that my understanding is much better reserved for non jerks.
How does one make a private lemmy community?
I don’t know, don’t have an instance. If it’s not just an option to still be federated but to opt out of having community posts being featured in all then maybe they should defederate with all of the other ones so they can post terrible things about the people they hate behind everyone else’s backs. Or they can just accept that when someone (even a mod) posts something antagonistic, it’s going to get down votes.
I seriously doubt that vegan posts showing off durian jerky, or even posts about how long cows could live if the meat industry didn’t slaughter them at peak profit efficiency, would be downvoted that much.
I understand what you’re saying, but I still think they could do without being such assholes about it. But I don’t have to interact with them and blocking is easy, so be it what it is.
Take the community private? Have Moral purity test for admission?
They thrive on the nonsense.
I’m not sure if you saw the recent community update, but things have died down at /c/vegan. Up to you, but posts will probably be leaning more informative and less antagonistic now that the situation has been resolved.
I haven’t seen it, but now I’m curious. Thanks
At this point we should turn Rule 5 into it’s own joke. Bad vibes? Rule 5. I don’t like you? Rule 5. I’m having a bad day? Rule 5. The great servers need a sacrifice? Rule 5. Bitching about Rule 5? Believe it or not, Rule 5.
Rule 5
Where’s his brother? I could have sworn there were two angry beavers…
Edit: NM totally missed the mod in question’s name.
Justified ban imo. You weren’t there to discuss veganism as a vegan, you were there for drama. It’s not spam when they make a lot of posts to their own community. Unless the content is hateful, the correct response is to block.
It’s not spam when they make a lot of posts to their own community.
I disagree. I see this often from lemmynsfw or various meme communities where some users tend to just dump 5-10 or even more threads. Neither Lemmy nor mbin really uses algorithms to prevent communities from showing up more than once, so you’ll always get the full load of those submissions spammed into your feed.
And no, blocking the entire community is not a valid solution when you do not inherently disagree with it.
I was never there, I was merely passing through All.
Increasingly I believe communities should be able to hide from All. I step into places without realizing it too. They want an echo bunker, not a public sidewalk
To expand:
c/veganism isn’t actually a place to discuss the merits or news about vegan topics, or recipes.
It’s a place for vegans, and only vegans, to share likeminded opinions on their world view. This is not unique to this community.
Being a non vegan, and sharing a non vegan opinion there is not what they want. They find it offensive, and nearly bannable in general.
Ultimately, that’s ok, it’s their community.
The problem comes in when their posts land on All, where anyone sees it and feels invited to read and comment and vote. (Which I believe they are). So a mechanism to keep them off All would be useful to discourage people “walking by”
Increasingly I believe communities should be able to hide from All.
Definitely
And I would say with such a rule, places shouldn’t have a rule 5 style rule AND be found on All. It should be either or. If you expose yourself to the public (to expand traffic), you.have to be thick skinned enough to handle public banter, which will not align with the community core.
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Well put.
If outsider opinions are nearly always considered “bad faith”, the situation is a systemic issue with the visibility of the group.
The OP literally shows a screenshot of your comment
What I mean to say is I didn’t enjoy a stay. My comment was made in a manner I would have made in any other community that popped up on All, that was serving up terrible meme after terrible meme. I wasn’t there to do anything.
If you were never a member of the community, then you’ve lost nothing from being banned, and the mod was right to decide that your comment wasn’t a good faith contribution from a member of the community.
The heck is going on?
Dunno. Trouble at the mill.
