We need a new party for the working class. The democrats are no longer that party and it cannot be saved.
well, we could have had that but 20 million cucks refused to vote.
now we get fascist dictatorship.
You’re right. MAGAxMAHA has absorbed the working class and is in the process of shedding the RINOS. Looks like Dems have scooped the RINOS up
You can’t tax an economy into prosperity, you can’t regulate a nation into prosperity, and you can’t export your industry and become prosperous.
The Democrats and Republicans since about 1965 have worked in concert to offshore industry, tax and regulate domestic businesses out of profitability, printed more money then you can imagine - driving inflation. And the crowning jewel of all of this was killing to gold standard, with a nice improvement to the display of the crown through implementation of Free trade.
If we had a Fair trade arrangement - that allowed for Tariffs that explicitly were put in place to undermine the value of subsidizing foreign production that is exported to your nation, we would have a very different story. If we had an explicit way or costing up production that is done to the detriment of environmental standards - China and such would have had actual pressure to clean up their environmental standards.
Lets explore something that demonstrates the missunderstanding:
I want to talk about China, It’s National Security concern, and Renewables. And yes - these three things are linked HEAVILY.
A lot of people who are pro Renewables will point to China: They can do it. And sure - they can. But what they entirely miss out on, is that to China Renewable energy is THE ONLY OPTION FOR ENERGY INDEPENDENCE. And Energy independence is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIALLY if you want to be a global power. Energy independence allows the nation to be more aggressive without risk of embargo - for if China were to engage militarily in Taiwan, the shipping lanes in and out of china could be put under blockade, western insurers would basically kill the option to use them to ensure the ships going to/coming from the region - and that would dramatically reduce the amount of oil/gas coming into the nation. It would also limit food entering the nation.
See: A Nation like Canada, or the US, who are each are (or capable of being) food AND energy independent - you can’t exactly siege them. While the last several decades manufacturing in these nations has been lacking, these nations also have tremendous mineral resource availability if they ever choose to start exploiting it at scale again: China has none of this.
Traditionally, this is why China has a strong incentive to facilitate the power of their Empire through Trade (ex. Silk Road). Because they have such need of importing food (especially over the last couple of decades), trade is the only option China has for expanding it’s influence. China CAN NOT use military force without fear of retribution that literally starves out it’s populace of energy, and food. Basically: China is vulnerable to a nation wide siege. And China’s potential greatest Rival: The US, has the absolute means to do this.
So, in order to solve ONE of these problems, China needs Energy Security through renewable. Oddly enough - in the mid term, as China’s populace begins to shrink it will become feasible for China to become food independent as well. Once that occurs, we may very well see China become more aggressive militarily.
Now: Take that same principle and apply it to EVERY SINGLE POLITICAL ISSUE.
When you start to see the agenda’s being pushed - and start ripping down and looking at the underlying motivations which come down to “we don’t want to die” and a couple other core ideas - each of which is very immediate - what we find is both Republicans, and Democrats are prone to ignoring the details in favour of pushing their agenda.
See: Climate change is very much real - the only question is, how much is it human caused? See - the big forest fires in Western Canada/US come down to a couple of things that are piling up over the last 5 or so years. 1. Beavers killed in massive quantities through the 1700’s and 1800’s. 2. Then we have massive fire suppression. 3. Then we have clear cutting of forests. Beavers seems odd - but beavers build damns out of wood, wet wood takes A LONG time to dry, like - from green wood to dry we are talking a year of air drying in near ideal conditions per inch of thickness and the beaver damns are… wet, covered in part by silt, and it’s deep. From the time the water ways start re-routing we are probably talking like 100-150 years for that material to dry out, break down and rot, and otherwise cease helping to maintain moisture in the area. When you suppress fires heavily - underbrush builds up and as it dries, becomes perfect fuel for a forest fire. Then you have the clear cutting which accelerates the drying of the area out. Look at the time lines and: Yep, forest fires will probably remain a problem for another decade or so.
What is going to fix the forests is: Removal of artificial damns (more fish in the water ways), Recovery of Beaver populations (they slow water ways and redirect them - they don’t stop them and control them the same way artificial ones do), and ceasing clear cut in favour of selective cuts and thinning (doing it this way does cost more per log, but - it actually can help the forest grow more lush, and a more limited area of forest support more life as more shrub and such is capable of growing in a way that allows safe spaces for wild life while providing food sources in the form of berries etc).
You know what WILL NOT fix the forest fire situation? Fighting carbon emissions. But that is exactly the argument.
I don’t see republicans, or democrats arguing for sensible long term models for dealing with the problems in a sensible way that can actually solve the problem. I see radical climate denial, and radical human caused arguments - and they aren’t useful, nor helpful but it’s what the media focuses on, it’s what gets spouted, because: It’s easy.
What?
Don’t mind him. Just his usual incoherent blather.
Ah nice, you’re getting a head start on the “blame the voter” strategy for the next election. Good job!
I’m fairly sure it’s not the voters they’re blaming. It’s the people who didn’t vote.
Ok sorry “electorate”. Debatelord semantics aside, the point remains the same.
Ah nice, you’re getting a head start on the “blame the voter” strategy for the next election. Good job!
When a vote goes a certain way who else would you blame but the voters?
The out of touch political party. Is this not obvious at this point?
Good news, you’ll all be able to sit out the next one as well!
On a plane being deported or in a cell being detained?
You likely won’t get another that isn’t a complete sham like they have in Russia
Yes, they’ll have the choice to do so for many, many years to come. :)
You don’t get to have a “perfect” candidate. Most of the time, your choices are between which choice you dislike the least. And when the choices are between Harris and another 4 years of Donald farking Trump . . . well holy jumping shitballs . . . that should have been the easiest choice in the world.
Fark EVERYONE who made this possible. And enjoy your precious little “protest vote” Dems. This is your fault, too.
No its the DNC’s fault. The onus is on them to win votes. I voted for Harris, but i wasnt excited to do so. That lack of excitement kept people home. Harris ran to the right and didnt give a fuck about winning leftists or the working class, banking on Liz Chaney to win her Republican votes. It didnt work. The dems need to focus on being progressive, not being slightly less worse than Republicans in the grand scheme of things.
You mistyped a few fucks.
For a non-American this thread and other like this are hilarious: the people who spent the last year campaigning “Vote Not Trump” now blame everybody else but themselves for how their strategy of having a candidate who did nothing to appeal to voters and sold fear of the other instead, failed miserably.
So they post tons of such “it’s the fault of everybody else” memes as topics were they and other members of the tribe make posts with wild ass reasons for why it really is everybody else’s faults and responding to such posts from others by basically saying “yeah, you’re so right”, like one gigantic circle jerk, pretty much a continuation of what they were doing for a whole fucking year - a big fat circle jerk whilst not paying attention to anybody else - only now they’re doing it with sad faces.
Sure, it’s the 14 millions who stayed home that are to blame, not the massive incompetence of the DNC and the mindless tribalist muppets trading dumb Trump and Vance memes whilst thinking that their “leaders” deserved a win merelly for wearing the right pin on their jacket and not being Trump, without needing to actually have policies that appealed to their natural voters.
“Bloody natural Democrat voters, not going to polls and doing what they’re supposed to do!”
What a heady, heady mix of stupidity and sense of entitlement.
Reminds me of the whole saying: “Only two things are infinite - the Universe and Human Stupidity - and we’re not sure about the first”
Lets be honest: The Not trump vote, probably made the election results as close as it was. And that might be difficult for some to wrap their head around - trump is unlikable, but: To anyone dealing with the fall out of certain choices Biden made attacking trump era policies (I’m thinking of one in particular), it’s a bit of a no brainer. This brings us to three key issues that are causing problems in US politics, but western politics in general:
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The Stay in Mexico agreement is the perfect example of how Opposing political representatives have a “everything the opposition does is mostly evil and bad, and it needs to be killed as soon as possible” - and this goes for EVERYTHING. If we could have sane, nuanced discussions and come to agreements and policies we would see a LOT less whip lash, and a LOT MORE cooperation. But people who think they have the moral high ground - doesn’t matter the side - uses that as a justification for their actions, no matter how harmful those actions are. To say that illegal immigration is a problem is an understatement - it creates downward pressure on ceertain wages, which is then used as justification because hard working americans don’t want piss poor wages.
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We have seen migration problems bleed into regional crime issues, tent cities, and so on.
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There are a handful of very democrat cities that are suffering dramatically from catch and release policies to the point that corperations that provide necessary essential services to make a city viable are leaving the city. They are simply closing up shop. And the attitude from the democrats is not to solve the underlying problem - it’s to try to make it illegal to close up shop in the city or area. Well: The only other option is to drive up prices, or basically make it impossible to get in and out without exactly what you have paid for.
All of this comes to a reality that we have seen a march towards Institutional Authoritarianism for DECADES, since about 1970… well, a little sooner, but if you look at a lot of shifts you are going to find that about 1965 through to about 1975 is a big shift in a lot of governance decisions, and this is no different. More, and more federal agencies were created - and laws were more and more written such that it was agency rules that dictated the specifics instead of clear written law by congress. In function, it was a divestment of power from Elected officials to Appointed agencies - and over time, the Bureaucracy has been ever more empowered to dictate the direction of many of these organizations, not the elected officials or congress: And yes, Democrats are the biggest fault in this, though republicans are… barely better in this regard.
So: How do we fix this?
The answer is: Smaller government. Simpler regulations are cheaper and easier to be in compliance with, and require less resources to audit. Simpler taxes are this with added benefits - in that, by simplifying, you crush the legal loopholes used to hide money from scrutiny. And part of the simplification is you remove basically everything that is eligible as a tax credit.
And this applies for EVERY SINGLE regulatory body, every government agency, all of it.
You can’t tax a nation into prosperity, you can’t regulate it into prosperity. You can tax a society into equality by making everyone miserable - but since the politicians are human beings as well, you can bet they will NOT be living a miserable life meaning it will never happen. Those two things are the core of stratifying a society - and again, they have increased in count and size consistently. And if you think taxing the rich is a great idea - income tax on the rich was the first income tax in the US, levied to pay the debts of the civil war. Pretty soon governments decided that taxing everyone else would be better then taxing just the rich: After all, it’s just fair… right? And pretty soon, the regulations, and rules shifted such that the rich pay significantly less as a portion of their income as does literally everyone else: Oops?
It’s almost like Equal opertunity serves society better then trying to force equitability. It’s almost like Free association, is better then trying to force everyone to associate. It’s almost like Freedom from government oversight is better then a government up in every bit of your business. And it’s like Free trade is good for the wealthy - and bad for about everyone else in the long term: Because it’s not about YOUR benefit, it’s a bout the owner classes benefit.
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Here’s the thing though - more than one thing can be true at the same time (some people even say that three things can be true at the same time - shoking, I know).
DNC incompetent? Sure.
How about not voting against a fascist because “DNC incompetent”? Sounds like “a heady mix of stupidity and sense of entitlement”.
Sincerely, A fellow non-American
You’re participating in the same circle jerk.
You’ve concluded that Trump is a huge Fascist and a danger beyond all other considerations (but not the Democrats, even though they’re giving weapons to an ethno-Fascist regime committing Genocide which is literally “supporting Fascism”) and you reached that conclusion from consuming Democrat propaganda in places like Lemmy with no actual use of skepticism, so now you repeat it.
Meanwhile all those people who don’t think like you and all the posters whose posts you read here, had very different levels in the like-hate Trump scale, and the like-dislike Democrats one, and the trust-distrust what the Democrats/Republicans say scales, the politically engaged scale, the thinking that my vote makes a difference to my life scale, the what matters to me most in life scale and other such scales in human belief and behaviour that together add up to make them or not go vote and for whom they vote, which in this election also included things like the flexibility or inflexibility of one’s principles thanks to the Democrats activelly breaking a really strong set of principle for lots of people when they supported with weapons the commiting of a Genocide in first Gaza and now also Lebanon.
The “incompetence” was the Democrats with their words and actions targetting a point in all those scales that turned off a lot more people that it turned on. The 14 million less Democrat votes make it undeniable that it wasn’t Trump that conviced those votes to flip, it was the Democrats that failed at convincing enough people to vote for them, so clearly their words and actions turned off from voting a lot of people.
The “entitlement” is the idea that everybody is equally politically aware as you, trusting about what the Democrats say of Trump as you, fearful of Trump as you, trusting that voting maters as you and so on. I’ve been a member of two different political parties over the years (in two different countries) and this blindness is incredibly common amongst party members: such strongly politically active and highly tribalist people just don’t get it that most of voters don’t think like them, not even close and it gets worse when they end up in circle jerks like the one here in Lemmy during the US Presidentials - they basically just strengthen each other’s beliefs in that what’s right or wrong, what will work or not work to help their side and what people think or don’t think, all with no actual proof being involved just the say so of like minded people, a pretty straighforward “groupthink” situation.
(In fact it was my experience with canvassing and leafletting in those two parties and countries that opened my eyes to the reality that in terms of engagement and trust in politics most people are nowhere like you and me.)
Even more “entitlement” is the idea that your values, forecasts and interpretation of the world are the right ones and those of the ones who didn’t vote are wrong, then compounded with the idea that others should just do as you think they should and if they don’t they’re wrong (all of which on display in this meme and all the type of posts here blaming the 14 millions) - this a pretty straightforward “I know best and others should follow my lead”, pure entitlement.
The “stupidity” is that the kind of people that have been engaging in this sort of thinking and posture are unable to, now that it has been shown beyond doubt that is complete total bollocks, review their own beliefs, behaviour and ideas in light of it. Instead they just blame everybody else like self-deluded simpletons.
Well said.
I don’t mind progressives staying home in 2016 to send the message to the DNC that a more progressive candidate was needed.
What I have a problem with is those same progressives showing up for Biden in record numbers in 2020, which sends a conflicting message to the DNC that you do need to put up a white moderate against Trump, and then staying home in 2024 when another moderate is on the ticket.
I hear you Bernie bros, I wish Bernie had been on the ticket in 2016 as well, but we’ll never know whether he would have beat Trump in the general. I would have rather given Trump four more years in 2020, then have to still deal with him now.
If he had just won in 2020, then we wouldn’t have had a violent insurrection that WILL happen again because it was validated by re-electing this guy and failing to hold him accountable.
Now it’s both totally unclear whether a progressive candidate could actually win in the general, and we have to deal with Trump until 2028. If the Democrats put up a progressive candidate like an AOC for 2028 and still lose… Then we’re completely fucked and would have to swing moderate again in 2032… would progressives still stay home out of protest if it’s shown that progressive policies are unpopular in the general election? Or would progressives finally agree to get behind a moderate candidate?
To be clear, I hope the Democratic primaries for 2028 do yield a more progressive candidate, and that they do win the general, but this is a really dangerous gamble. I hope the nation, world and vulnerable groups can hang on while we see if it will pay off.
I’ve been wondering if would be better off if McCain or Romney had won. Not that they would be better than Obama but questioning if that time-line would have avoided Trump. Fuck that’s depressing.
And I bet Obama has nightmares about that event where he made a joke at Trump’s expense.
america will never be progressive and elections, while might be held in ‘28 there’s a model out there turnip is already looking to import. why do you think he’s crowing about orban and putin all the time?
Big ups to those people who “voted against genocide”.
Special shout-out to the folks that voted third party because “my state will be blue”
I thought my state would go blue. Went out to vote anyway and voted blue. Brought my spouse out to vote as well. Our state did not go blue. Country is fucked
folks that voted third party because “my state will be blue”
Admittedly not all the votes are in, but…
- Pennsylvania - Trump up by 130k votes, Jill Stein got 33k votes
- Michigan - Trump up by 84k votes, Jill Stein got 45k votes
- Wisconsin - Trump up by 28k votes, Jill Stein got 12k votes
Are all Jill Stein votes from protest voters? Nah, there are diehard Green supporters out there.
Are there other 3rd party candidates? Of course, but how many RFK (more votes than Stein in WI) voters could she have converted? Almost none.
This was her blue wall road to victory, show me the electoral path to victory ruined by third party voters who would have otherwise voted Democrat.
This election was lost by people not showing up to vote. Trump is sitting at almost 72M votes right now compared to 74M in 2020. Harris is only at 67M now, compared to Biden’s 81M in 2020. While there are still votes to count, there aren’t 15M votes left to count.
Whether it was lack of interest, protest, or whatever reason, 10% of voters stayed home this year.
A good chunk of biden voters then were shepherded in by Bernie since Biden ended up compromising with Bernie for the transition.
Imagine if Harris threw a bone to the left. Those are some of the 15 million who stayed home.
My election registration got canceled three times this year. The last two times it was because of a “duplicate”, and they were counting my canceled registrations as duplicates. I have no idea if my ballot got counted, or if it was discarded.
I vote blue in one of those red states…
Write to the white house and ask them to investigate it as fraud. Because there was shenanigans pulled in red states for that.
Americans overseas had their ballots challenged in Pennsylvania and there is still a lawsuit over that.
Similar here actually. I usually try to vote by mail, but by the time I finally got registeration and residency handled after 2 online registrations and two visits to the elections office, early voting was over, so I had to go to the polls on election day
I blame the Stein voters exactly as much as I blame the people staying at home. And neither as much as the people who voted for Trump.
And you lay absolutely zero blame at the feet of the Democratic Party itself?
“Admittedly not all the votes are in, but…” you’ll pretend to make a point with vote counts anyway.
I am so fucking sick of all this shit.
We don’t have 15 million outstanding votes. They said that in their post.
Unless the dems can pull 15 million votes out of their ass, Trump won.
- Pennsylvania - 98.3% Reporting
- Michigan - 98.7% Reporting
- Wisconsin - 99% Reporting
These states have been called for Trump. The remaining outstanding vote will not impact this result. The remaining vote is not going to come in all for Jill Stein or other third party candidates. The point that protest votes for third party candidates did not rob Harris of an electoral college victory will stand once 100% of the vote is in.
Okay, now you’ve supplied enough information to validate what you’re saying. Thanks.
No state had enough third party votes to flip red to blue had they all gone blue, so can we give this a rest?
The DNC failed, plain and simple.
Third party votes were pretty much at their average. Except in Deerborn Michigan, but that’s still not enough to flip Michigan and I can’t blame Muslim voters there from being pissed.
They should be pissed. We all should be pissed.
But they wanna blame someone who doesn’t impact anything! Why blame a bad campaign when you can blame 0.03% of the voters!
It was a good campaign. Maybe it could have been even better, sure, but the amount of Monday night quarterbacking in here is silly.
The only thing I can question about it, I’m not even sure about.
The problem wasn’t anything the campaign did. The problem was that “did joe Biden drop out” was trending on Google the day of the election. Tell me how to reach those people.
Do you think there weren’t enough ads? Not enough door knocking? What exactly, would you have them do?
No it was an objectively bad campaign. Harris should have run as a change candidate and distanced herself from Biden. That was the whole point of getting him to drop out. He was less popular than Trump
I don’t think you can educate people who learned Biden dropped out on election night, those people are too stupid to vote. Especially since my YouTube for weeks after Harris was the nominee, I got a lot of donation ads staring her, not once mentioning Biden.
I don’t know if more ads would have gotten her a bigger spotlight, but I do know that its political non-sense to claim to help those who fascist targets, then ignore the calls of those who fascist targets, and then buddy up with subtler-fascists like Dick and Liz Chaney.
Its like she was trying to say “You go along with this, you’re never going to vote for Trump, he hates you, I don’t.” And she was right, they didn’t vote for Trump as he hates them.
Wisconsin and Michigan.
And Pennsylvania and Georgia. The so-called swing states really took a wild swing this time.
Got me there, though if you look and tally only the left candidates who might’ve actually gone for Harris otherwise it’s still not true.
And in any case, she still loses even if she got these states.
What if my state is California?
Who did you vote for?
It doesn’t matter. Point is, some states will, without a question, vote blue.
So you voted third party and don’t want to admit you helped Trump win. Nice
What a dumb conclusion to make. I didn’t vote because I legally can’t. My point is that some states are most definitely always blue. California is one of them.
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Taking the data from here and throwing it in a spreadsheet, Trump got more votes than everyone else combined, including the Libertarian party, RFK Jr, and Write-ins.
Looking at that chart, she would have won in Wisconsin and gotten their ten electoral votes.
What does it look like for the rest of the states?
Across the country, it was Trump: 71,825,780 Everyone else: 69,303,000
It says at the top of the page it was last updated a day ago, but I kind of doubt the numbers will change too dramatically.
67m for Harris to 72m (rounded up) on the BBC; it was really not close eh.
Biden got 81.2 million.
How the fuck are people not voting. After all that.
How the fuck are people not voting.
Massive voter suppression, and propaganda.
The other person was making the point that you can’t do it by total popular vote, you have to do it by state and then look at their electoral college votes.
But the electoral college is dumb and pointless. This is the first time a Republican won the popular vote since 2004, or since 1988 if you don’t want to count an incumbent victory. That alone should tell you plenty about the state of the country right now.
It’s dumb and pointless, but it’s literally the way a president is elected today. We have had many instances of people being elected president who didn’t win the popular vote. So if you want to try to figure out if third party candidates caused Trump to get elected, you have to look at it state by state.
But the electoral college is dumb and pointless
And its also how a president is elected in the United States, or 2016 would have gone a bit differently.
Honestly, it doesn’t matter, even if every single 3rd party voter went for Harris, Trump still wins
But how else will they blame anyone but themselves?
The meme is literally how else.
Now count those that didn’t vote at all.
Maybe the Democratic party should have been better st convincing these people that didn’t vote, instead of alienating them on both the economy and foreign policy.
But sure, go out and scream at people for not supporting Genocide and for feeling worse off financially after Biden. I’m sure that will convince a lot of people to vote for your party at the next election.
The US is really the only country where, the more people despise the party that they vote for, theore they are told they are protecting “democracy” and “freedom”. Freedom and democracy for who ? Clearly not for the average person that felt completely left out by the only 2 electable parties.
Hope those people enjoy what trump has to offer them for the next four years, and possibly longer.
Also- no one supported genocide. You can stop now.
You won.
If voting for a party (and maybe even telling others to vote for them) is not supporting their current action (especially when the candidate that is running is currently in power) than I don’t know what your definition of “support” is.
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Some of them tried but state shenanigans prevented their ballot from counting.
Alright! So Palestine is free now, right guys?..right?
Palestine is freed… from existing.
The genocide will finally stop!
Because there won’t be anyone left to kill
Of course they are! The non-voters and 3rd party voters did exactly what they said they’d do to free Palestine and now It’s all flowers and hugs as far as the eye can see over there!
Don’t mind the big sign in right in the center of their city that reads “Future Site of Giant Crater”, that’s nothing at all to worry about. Just focus on all the hugs!
Everyone in north Gaza will be dead by new years because of the intentional famine. And it will happen completely under Biden without Trump even getting to the White House.
The community is literally dying and all you can do is throw insults.
Ima be blunt. They would treat me exactly the same as republicans will, because im a trans woman so fuck me. Who it is does actually matter
Let’s meet back here on Jan 1st so I can say you’re full of shit directly to you.
I’m done arguing with you on this.
The UN isn’t lying when they said north Gaza has had no food delivered for weeks and the IDF isn’t lying when they said anyone left alive there who didn’t evacuate is an enemy combatant. The “Generals strategy” is playing out in Israel.
We’re all pissed that Trump won but don’t take it out on others who are also suffering alongside you.
I said I’m done arguing with you on this. You keep coming back for more. Walk away.
If Kamala lost the election because she wasn’t in support of Palestine then why didn’t she just support Palestine?
That’s not why she lost the election. The whole “Democrats support genocide!” meme was a propaganda technique to suppress Dem voter turnout. It had an effect, but on its own, I don’t think it was decisive. Sadly, most Americans, including Democrats and progressive, don’t give a shit about the Palestinians, except to cry crocodile tears. And the vast majority of the Republicans are fine with further expanding the genocide.
I agree with you, but if you look at the above comment, so many downvotes indicate that many other people wildly disagree with you. They honestly believed that the election would swing on single issue Palestine voters, they swore up and down that was the case, and I don’t think they’re going to take a look in the mirror tomorrow.
Maybe make your one issue election about your country and not others? And I mean if you really cared about Palestine, you wouldn’t have stood off to the side and let Trump through, cause now you’ll get to watch the complete annihilation of Palestine, and even more of your tax dollars will go towards the genocide
With Kamala you had someone you could work with and who responds to bad press and would have buckled to your demands. Now you got Trump who gives zero fucks about what you don’t like
I’m not American and you didn’t answer my question.
If pro-palestinian one issue voters lost Kamala the election, why didn’t she appease them? Why are the voters to blame and not the democrats?
Because in the coalition of Democratic voters and donors, there are also those who unconditionally support Israel, and they outnumber those who support the Palestinians.
Answers to your comment are hilarious, these people deserve Trump but they don’t even realise this. Rats complaining about cockroaches.
Im an Israeli anarchist, but I’m still going to try my best at explaining.
American liberals won’t ever appease leftists, or minorities, because they expect subservience and loyalty for nothing in return. In so doing they play right into the fascists’ hands, trying to serve right wingers who already made their minds up in voting for a fascist.
It is very likely not only more leftists but more Muslim and arabic people would’ve voted for dems if it weren’t for dems insisting that kamala should keep supporting israel and that criticism is amount to betrayal.
As much as i despise electoralism, being an anarchist and all, it’s very simple to understand how and why this happened even from an electoralist perspective, makes one think maybe american liberals just don’t want to understand.
And before anyone says I’m talking out of my ass about american libs, as if i don’t know them because I don’t live in the states: Know that they walk and talk just the same as israeli liberals, and these empty platitudes and threats of being a traitor are the same as i get at home.
If I’m understanding your comment correctly we’re more or less on the same page.
My question is not a literal question but me pointing out the paradox sucking up to Israel to “win the election” and then blaming pro-palestine voters after they lose the election.
Oh, yeah that makes more sense, we’re definitely on the same page.
It wasn’t the one issue, it was just the one that stuck with people who needed an excuse to not show up and vote for a woman.
You’re doing the exact same thing. You are refusing to acknowledge any criticism to the Harris campaign and blaming voters for the loss.
Misogyny absolutely played a role in this election and I do not want to downplay the racism and misogyny that Harris had to work against, but she ran a fucking awful campaign. She sucked up to fascists, ignored her base, and belittled the concerns pro-palestine protestors.
I’m speaking now.
I think i can copy paste this comment somewhere on a 2016 thread about Hilary and it would make just as much sense.
How about you tell this to someone who isn’t white, or better yet, someone who has family affected by the situation in gaza.
Because they shouldn’t have beeded to be convinced. Trump was obviously the worse choice for Palestine. The most basic realpolitik shouldve told them to hold their nose. They are to blame for putting their ideals over the lives of everyone around them and even those they want to save.
Ok you go say that to their faces. Tell them they should suck it up and vote for an administration that is funding a genocide against their people. Tell them they’re being “idealistic” when they speak out against a genocide.
Liberals are amazing.
Ok you go say that to their faces. Tell them that Donald Trump will stop funding genocide against their people. Tell them they are being “unrealistic” when they cite his promise to help Israel “finish the job”.
What are you even saying?
Your argument is essentially, “Hey I know democrats are committing a genocide against your people, but if you don’t vote for them republicans are going to genocide your people even harder”
Why should they believe democrats? The arguments you’re all making lack any sort of attempts to understand the people you’re talking about or the situation they are facing. Their families are being murdered every fucking day and Kamala couldn’t fucking stop herself from saying shit like “we’re going to have the most lethal army” and “israel has a right to defend itself”. I cannot imagine the emotions these people are dealing with and the fact that you are belittling them for not voting democrat is honestly disgusting.
Put one in front of me, I gladly will
ok tough guy. Let me know when you’ve told a Palestinian that they are stupid for not voting democrat because Trump is going to murder their family even harder than Biden.
I’m not American
then please shut the fuck up.
That’s an excellent question. The Harris campaign decided to not let Palestinians speak at the DNC. The Uncommitted movement offered to endorse her but the staff refused to let any Palestinian Americans do so on camera, even with pre-vetted remarks. It’s mystifying and one of the major blunders of the Harris campaign.
Harris seemed hyper focused on avoiding any criticism by Trump or Republicans. Hence she wouldn’t meet with Palestinian-Americans and avoided all the Muslim voters in Pennsylvania who were trying to meet with her. She was working so hard to get Republicans to flip and support her, which is why she did a rally with Liz Cheney and talked about how much she’d help Israel, and decided the Arab-American and Muslim-American votes were expendable if it meant getting more Republicans.
Hillary tried the same strategy in 2016, and it failed badly. Throwing one of the most loyal democratic voting blocs under the bus to get Republicans to flip for them, has been a strategy of 2 of the last 3 elections (Biden promised to undo the Muslim ban but nothing else, so I don’t know if that counts) and they keep repeating this playbook with the same results. I fear that in 2028 they won’t even try to get our votes again and will try to cozy up to Trump’s Muslim ban in hopes that Republicans flip to democrat once again.
Harris seemed hyper focused on avoiding any criticism by Trump or Republicans.
Compare that with, “They are unanimous in their hate for me — and I welcome their hatred.” That line came from some four-term-President loser.
I suppose that is one way to misread what was typed. GJ
What are you saying then?
I already said it…it isn’t my job to make you read it better. If you actually want to know then you will try again and do better, if not then you can shout into the void until you feel better.
sick bro
The guy won the popular vote. The people who sat the election out would probably have broken for Trump too.
The problem here isn’t voter turnout, it’s voter preference for a fascist.
That’s just not true. You have no idea what the people who stayed home would have done if they were forced to vote. You have no idea how the campaign would have turned out if Harris had tried to win the popular vote.
Actually, the problem appears to be exactly voter turn out. With a healthy heaping of Neo-Liberal rot in the Democratic Party.
Sure, because everyone who stayed home was a democrat. Every Republican voted.
Pretty much 15 million people didn’t vote this election who voted in 2020. Major difference was every one was home. A good bit of people had nothing to do in 2020. 2024 we had to work and a life not a good reason but turns out without a national holiday with everyone off but emergency services. 15 million less people voted.
Pretty much every republican voted except 2-3 million. 11-12 million democrats were doing other things this year
The “genocide” propaganda worked, and now Trump will help Netanyahu expand it.
186,000 Palestinian deaths isn’t “propaganda.”
Republican voter base is most likely to have the motivation or resources or both to go to the voting booth to vote for Drumpf. All other voters need a convincing reason to lose out their paycheck to go vote at risk of losing their job. Dems and Kamala are to blame. Not the voters.
When you lose an election this badly, people are clearly not buying you’re selling.
But damn I did not expect so many people to sit out against the guy who did the coup and amongst all the other shit. If there is any light ahead, I think it’s that this L forces the Democratic Party to lean back left with their campaign promises, and whatever power they have left to affect policy.
If there is any light ahead, I think it’s that this L forces the Democratic Party to lean back left with their campaign promises, and whatever power they have left to affect policy.
If they go far left they’ll lose all backing and funding, making them completely useless. It’s just the way the system is built. I’m Canadian but I see you guys had a choice to pick a bad but fixable administration, and instead just let the fascist through. I mean you can chide the Democrats all you want for the result, but it was the left who sat out and it’s those same people who are gonna suffer
Bernie Sanders set records for both 2016 and 2020.
The number of Democratic voters is reported to be around 49 million. (link) As of 9 a.m., Vice President Kamala Harris had 66.5 million votes to Trump’s 71.56 million. (link)
Plenty of the left showed up, in 2020 biden got 81,283,501 in the popular vote. That’s near 15 million disenchanted voters who didn’t return to the polls for this administration. But let’s blame the 15 million people, surely they must all be wrong and not the DNC’s strategy or anything.
I think it’s that this L forces the Democratic Party to lean back left with their campaign promises, and whatever power they have left to affect policy.
Yeah, that’s what everyone thought after 2016 as well.
They are fucking incapable of learning this.
Bernie polled great against Trump but they snubbed him for Hillary and we lost because of it.
The only reason Biden won was because he wasn’t Trump and we were tired of him at that point.
Kamala had a chance to swing a little more left but continued to try to court moderate conservatives and the suburbs instead.
They just can’t get it through their heads that: Trump and maga are winning as a reaction of “fuck the system”. This mostly stems from corporations and the filthy rich not being taxed enough and us not spending enough on social programs. That energy could have been captured and utilized by running a leftist.
But instead we get milquetoast business as usual bullshit
Utterly bizarre. I expected Trump might squeak out an electoral win, but the popular vote as well? Thanks everyone who stayed the fuck home. You sat by as fascism was ushered in to the US.
Same. I’m not sure if I’m more… “Ok” with this? We should still abolish the electoral college, but we were shafted by the American people this time (and the propaganda machine making things worse). It’s the first time since I turned 18 that the GOP actually won the popular vote… Sigh
Abolishing the electoral college would require a constitutional amendment, and isn’t even necessary. Passing the National Popular Vote law in a few more states will guarantee that the electoral college always follows the national popular vote. This law has already been passed by 17 states + DC, with a total of 209 electoral votes - already 3/4 of the way there, only 61 more votes needed. Go to the site to see if it already passed in your state.
Generations of those who gave everything for our country are rolling
Big thanks to all the Americans who voted in favor of another trump presidency. He couldn’t have won without them.
Like every election, only about 1/3 of eligible voters did. I will never again listen to a single fucking thing people who didn’t vote or those who threw theirs away on a 3rd-party candidate have to say.
There are people in fascist authoritarian countries (incoming in 3, 2, 1…) who would love to vote and have it matter. They would even choose to die for it…
You really should listen to them though. They are telling you exactly what they want.
Ignoring them and then being surprised and mad they didn’t show up wasn’t the play. And it will continue not being the play.
What are you actually talking about? See, this is the exact disconnect I’m referencing. “Listen to them”? How can I, when they have voluntarily made themselves voiceless. Say what you will about the maga freaks, at least they believe in something and do the bare minimum for their cause by voting.
I completely understand being disillusioned with the election process or even thinking bOtH SiDeS are the same, but… In an election for President, Senators, House and local Representatives, ballot measures, etc, if you’re eligible to vote and don’t, you’re part of the problem. Even if you’re okay with the status quo for yourself, children, friends, family, and vulnerable people, you’re still taking a large risk in such a close election as it’s a transitional time and no one knew what the exact results would be…
I know that’s quite a rant. But all I’m really saying is they have no right to complain after sitting on the sidelines when it mattered, and I simply won’t listen to a thing they say now…
Why would anyone vote for the Democratic Party ?
Like sure, you need to be racist and almost a Nazi to vote for the Republican Party but what did the Democrats bring to the table ?
Nothing, Kamala was campaigning on nothing because she told everyone she was going to be like Biden. By looking at polls you will we that people are feeling economically worse off right now that 4 years ago. Biden did this, the Democrats did this, if they wanted to win they would have run a different candidate (or actually done the primaries) that would become a symbol for change.
But instead they just decided, undemocratically, to run the VP, the one person other than Biden that is responsible for the policies of the last 4 years. And then Kamala H. even said to people at rallies that she was going to be like Biden !? Thats crazy, it really makes you wander if the Democratic Party even cares about winning or if they are just controlled opposition at this point. After what they did to Bernie Sanders twice, I think we all know has things really are.
Also let’s remember that Harris also decided that she would campaign in favor of Genocide ! How crazy is that, the party supposedly on the left was already completely supporting Israel and they said they were going to be supporting them.
But unlike the Republicans, K. Harris would also say some empty words about how bad killing Palestinians was. Then she would obviously reassure everyone that she still wanted to support Israel until the end, because she can’t risk people confusing her for an actual leftist.
After all they were trying to convince this inexistent moderate suburban white republican that actually wants to vote Dems. And for that they abandoned their whole base.
Trump is going to be worse ? Yes, for sure. Did Kamala Harris offer any alternative, anything at all to convince people to go out and vote ? Did she actually convince people she would be more than just slightly less evil ? No, she did not.
Also if you go back and listen to her plans for immigration and the border, there is literally no difference from how she talks and how a Republican talks.
That’s why she lost. She didn’t care about the Democratic voters, and for this reason they didn’t show up. It is up to the political party to convince people of their policy. Democracy dies when you can’t vote for what’s important to you, because at that point, why even vote ? The politicians don’t care about you anyway.
Blaming voters is wrong, it is the fault of the Democratic Party and it deserve to loose every election until the reallign with their voters. Until they propose to them popular policies and show interest in their support.
Trump didn’t get more votes than 2020.
And despite that he still got millions of votes. Millions of Americans want this. We’re a country of terrible people.
Hey now. We’re only half full of terrible people. Some of us did our best to do the right thing.
More than half the country if you count the people who voted for him and the people who didn’t vote.
I’m not sure that statement can be verified at this point in time.
It’s close though. Big shift (so far) is 10 million ish fewer for Harris
They haven’t finished counting the votes yet. Unless you are somehow comparing to the exact point in the count 4 years ago, this type of analysis is very premature. Except even that would be a bad idea because covid made things weird in 2020.
It’ll be a little while until we get a good handle on turnout. Until then don’t read too much into it.
Yes, a Very Special Thanks to the morally pure angels who refused to vote for Kamala Harris because they were standing on high ground about some issue they disliked her on. Well done, fuckheads.
It’s kamala’s fault tho /s
It really was (or at least the Democratic party’s fault). If you take every single third party voter, assign them to Kamala, she still loses.
The real problem here is that people needed to be convinced that voting was worth it when Trump was a candidate. How the fuck do you even reach someone with such a pathetic lack of concern for the world? Seriously you people think if she vowed to stop Israel, magically these dip shit knuckle dragging morons would’ve jumped at the chance to vote for her. Millions of people told us they give zero fucks. And fuck them for that.
American voters in general dgaf about things that don’t affect them. Israel is irrelevant to your median American voter.
Yeah I agree. After this result you cannot argue that Americans in general give a flying fuck about their neighbor. It’s fucking pathetic. Zero faith in America, maybe humanity, left here.
That genocide is gonna stop any day now
Didn’t you hear? All Palestinians got a personal check for $1 million straight from trump himself.
Big thanks to all the Dems who decided getting millions from AIPAC was worth throwing the election.
